P traps

[jcotter]

Is it necessary to install a p trap below a toilet or will the trap in the toilet itself keep out odors from a septic tank?

[fourth yearParticipant]

If you install a “P” trap under a toilet, it will not flush.

[armdiverParticipant]

Thanks for your response but why do you say it won’t flush? So should I install p-traps under all fixtures except toilets? Does the trap in the toilet work the same way a p-trap works as far as keeping the smell from the septic tank out of the house?
[Edited by armdiver on 25 January 2001]

[jefjamsParticipant]

All Water Closets or Toilets come with an Internal Trap, so there is no need to install any additional external traps

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

NEVER listen to a helpless HELPER .

Some toilets LIKE a FROST proof type DO REQUIRE a P Trap below the frost line like on construction site or areas where freezing is a problem.

Normally a toilet has an integral trap and thus doesn’t require a trap.

A 2nd trap would cause an air bound system and more stoppages.

Asking a HELPER especially one with NO Formal training is like asking a hospital orderly about having open heart surgery It just doesn’t make any sense.

Coffee boys in this country are known to open mouth with no idea what they are talking about.

A tiny bit of knowledge is really a dangerious thing.

Lucky you didnt ask about Gas Fired toilets. I could imagine the inept advice you would have recieved.

Again this proves my point about the lack of training US helpers now recieve.

Frank you should talk to the UA apprenticeship training program directors as this country NEEDS HELP possibly having someone with an IQ above a rock should be considered to give advice.

[fourth yearParticipant]

Oh wise LMP. A thousand pardons for assuming this was to be a conventional toilet installation. Please tell me why a person would want to install a frost proof toilet in a basement? If it is that cold, I would think that they would prefer to use the upstairs ones. And then you should also tell them to insulate and heat tape wrap the water lines before they freeze. You might have also mentioned that RV toilets use a valve system and do not need traps either. Perhaps they could install one of these over a floor drain. And if they install a Port-A-Jon, then the whole discussion is moot. How many frost proof toilets have you installed in NYC in the last 50 years? Now, I mean toilets, not hoppers. Dozens I am sure. You might also advise them that a toilet on the moon would have to have a pressure system since there would not be any air pressure to operate a conventional flush syphon. Let’s see if there are any other possible systems that would either not need any trap or else required an external trap. You were supposedly on naval ships so you did not have traps there either, and I do not suppose your latrines had traps either. Boy, once you start thinking about it, you are right, the toilets there are lots of situations that need external traps. I wonder why the manufacturers bother making toilets with integral traps when all these other applications are just begging for toilets.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

Quote:

Originally posted by fourth year:
Oh wise LMP. A thousand pardons for assuming < AGAIN your ignorance is showing tsk tsk tsk

YOU thinking LOL
>this was to be a conventional toilet installation. Please tell me why a person would want to install a frost proof toilet in a basement? If it is that cold, I would think that they would prefer to use the upstairs ones.

Answer
Helping a non Qualified helper learn is the pits, hey Dummy Some Cabins (hunting lodges) don’t have the room UPSTAIRS DUH THINK about it

And then you should also tell them to insulate and heat tape wrap the water lines before they freeze.

Hey rock for brains< Why insulate them for 24-7 if only being used SELDOM?

You might have also mentioned that RV toilets use a valve system and do not need traps either. Perhaps they could install one of these over a floor drain.<

WOW stupidity is on the rampant.

Like you would do as a non knowing HELPER.. Man you ARE THICK and really un knowing of codes HUH?

And if they install a Port-A-Jon,

DUH .. Helper think possibly they may not be a port a Jon locally available ??? then

the whole discussion is moot, < according to you huh?

You NEED to go BACK to first YEAR and really try READING instead of being the coffee boy on the job.

How many frost proof toilets have you installed in NYC in the last 50 years?

In the last 6 years I have installed 3, Mostly in PARKS Department building SHUT down for the winter months using DEEP SEAL P traps below the frost level so the traps wont freeze and YET hold their prime.

. DUH you really dont know anything do you? I think Frank should take pity on you and try to teach you something as it sure appears your instructors FAILED

. You assuming and not THINKING like a Qualified 1st year apprentice would.

You know after reading Franks replies and your stumble bums approach THE apprenticeship program your in is a total FAILURE.

You sir are wasting the instructors time and your own.

Take it from me YOU honestly should try another career move. YOU will never EVER be a skilled journeyman.
IMPOSSIBLE
Give it up guy. being a skilled Journeyman is not for everyone.

You are just going through the motions YOU maybe a shop steward BUT know it YOU can never ever be a mechanic in any stretch of the imagination. I am very serious YOU are wasting your time.

Your 4 years in the trade was a total waste.

Good luck YOUR going to need it as you certainly cannot rely on skills.

This is not a put down it is FACT

How many fields have you tried before you picked on plumbing?

Have a great one..

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

I’m with Fourth Year on this one.In my 15 years as a plumber I have never put in a frost free toilet.I would not want to live in a house that needed one.I would have to say that Sylvans answer was more than any homeowner needed.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

Hey Wall does one toilet FIT ALL?

I guess you also figure the frost level should be the same in EVERY STATE.

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

If you have frost under your basement floor your toilet would be the least of your problems!I thought a master plumber would also have some knowledge of building construction.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

hey Wall not ever structure has a basement DUH,

Did you ever notice a parks department rest room closed during the winter months?

If you have how do you think the toilets are protected from freezing? UNLESS you get some hick plumbing apprentice to suck it out with a straw.

Remember not all toilets are in a heated space I know of several post offices that have no heat in the garage areas but do have toilets.

Try to think outside the box and try to look at the over all picture in plummmmmin

Ever go on a construction job SHANTY NO HEAT during the week end HUH?

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

I had a customer call about a frostless toilet.I gave him your number.He may also be interested in a frostless wall hung sink and urinal.Being the expert on this subject I thought this may be a job for you.I,m also looking for a buyer for 20 gallons of antifreeze since I’ll no longer be needing it.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

Hey Wall I hope your joking about using antifreeze to protect fixtures during the winter months?

You being a country plumber and thus using the upstate primitive code probably didn’t get the word yet that ANTI FREEZE is toxic and such be disposed of properly.

See the bulletins that the DEP issues

Unfortunately the NYS code is the country’s worst only slightly behind death valley.

The higher up state the it appears the more lax the so called plumbing officials are.

Hopefully the bill before Albany rquiring all plumbers to pass the NYC written exam will be come law with no retroactive licensing allowed.

Ah the joys of finally having plumbers really qualified will be a great change huh?

I think guy you should practice up on suds pressure zones and learn venting without wet venting or AAV’s.

Please keep sending accounts in my direction as they really could use a Qualified plumber for once.

Wait till the 41/2 HR written test becomes mandatory this should get rid of the Billy Butt cracks

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

I think you should inform the DEP about the millions of gallons being sprayed on windshields!It’s the same stuff I use.I’m sure it’s just an oversight on their part.

[RichardParticipant]

WINDSHIELD washer fluid and anti-freeze are two VERY different things. Anti-freeze for airplanes (type III) is propylene glycol based (mixed with other compounds which vary based on local municipal jurisdiction), and and is biologically inert, while type I is ethylene glycol, which is poisonous. Type I is prefered because of its lower vapor pressure, lower cost, and therefore can be applied much earlier before takeoff. Some jurisdictions allow Type III to be sent right into the municipal waste system, while others require treating the washoff from type III.
As for windshield washer fluid, these are alcohol based and WILL freeze (ever leave a bottle of it in your trunk on a very cold day?). Some of the more expensive windshield washer fluids do contain some propylene of ethylene glycol, in SMALL concentrations.

The Friendly Chemist

[Author]

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