Unpacking oakum+lead hub joint?

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    • #278704
      Avatar photoMasterPlumbers

        OK, big time help needed: I’ve come to a situation I’ve not seen before….

        Cast iron hub-type sewer line wye, with a PVC 3″ DWV joined with the “classic” oakum-lead seal: how can I dissassemble this? The DWV coming off this is a solid block of back to back couplings, so no opportunity there to use a no-hub clamp.

        I’ve never worked with these classic selas before, so any and all help is much appreciated!


      • #299108
        Avatar photoSylvanLMP

          Hey Frank nothing classic here we STILL use QUALITY poured joints for those folks who demand Quality.

          OK simple repair here NO PROBLEM. As you have several choices.

          1- Cut the plastic crap with a saw about 3 or 4″ above the hub and go no hub coupling from there AFTER you repack the lead joint tight with a caulking iron or very flat chisel.

          2- Get a saw cut the plastic crap out close to the hub and saw the plastic garbage down the middle and split it (put a rag in the drain to prevent debris going down) Then after you remove the plastic you can use a chisel and GENTLY split the caulked joint and remove the lead and old oakum.

          3- Get a good saw blade cut the cast iron just below this hub get a MISSION coupling NEVER (FERNCO) and get an Extra heavy mission coupling plastic or standard pipe size (Schedule 40)then go on with basic simple connections

          4- Best bet STEP 2 then hire a mechanic to install a piece of no hub pipe into this bell part of the cast iron recaulk it properly (1 pound of lead per inch of diameter) and yarn, pack and trim.

          This should take less then 15 minutes even if the joint is 3/4 under water or on the horizontal.

          Get a plumbers hourly rate and have them do this part of the job.

          Then you can attach the plastic to the piece of no hub cast Iron sticking out of this hub

        • #299109
          Avatar photofourth year

            How do you make a good joint, (or any kind of poured joint), if the pipe is 3/4 under water. Most poured joints will explode if the oakum is even slightly wet. It sounds like the apochryphal story of the linotype operator who dips his hand in water and then into lead to show it can be done. Obviously the teller has never dipped a cold or damp ladle into a pot of hot lead. In case it has never happened to you, it is a mini explosion with instant flying lead.

          • #299110
            Avatar photoSylvanLMP

              Hey “Helper” got a $1,000 you care to lose? BET one of your mechanics NOT your instructyors as they seem not to be doing your “TRAINING” properly

              I placed a bet with a loud mouth HELPER (5th year apprentice) who said it CANT BE DONE. Lucky he was making mechanics scale when I took his weeks pay from him

              Now HELPER ask your instructor OR if you have a decent mechanic ask him/her to show you the following.

              Take a Bell and spigot cast iron joint 3/4 submerged in water like happens in a trench

              The roll brown oakum up tight and have a REAL mechanic show you how to yarn a joint.

              After the SOAKING wet oakum is packed to a depth of 1″ ask a MECHANIC to show you a joint runner (Asbestos rope)

              Now as I taught my BRAIN DEAD know it all big MOUTH unknowing HELPERS I took cutting oil and poured just enough to seep out of the bottom of this runner.

              Wait no more then 15 seconds and POUR the molten lead like normally LEAVING the runner slightly open on the very bottom. ONE POUR

              When you hear the hissing sound you reach below the water line close this gap while still pouring a PERFECT Joint every time

              BUT like I told Bungie a 4th YEAR Helper is still learning the fittings and tools and NEVER, EVER should be allowed to do anything that requires any mechanical ability by themselves.

              You have proven my point again how dangerous it is to have minimum knowledge in this field

              Nothing personal against you,

              I blame your instructors for not giving you what a “Normal” 2nd year apprentice would learn if they watched mechanics actually working not just being the coffee boy on big jobs.

              Unfortunately today a lot of helpers no longer have common sense as they are used to the easy way out of jobs.

              Plastic/fernco and no hub ad compression joints took its toll on thinking and getting the job done properly.

              Most apprentices/helpers never thought about how did the dead men install piping in trenches where it rained the day before and had to continue installing piping properly.

              4Th year Don’t bother trying the above under water joint leave that to the journeymen or better qualified helpers. your just going to hurt yourself LEAVE the REAL plumbing to the Licensed journeymen

              Amazing, NOW I can see why franchises can say plumbers trained in 12 weeks As it sure seems like it is the SAME TRAINING the apprentice is wasting his/her time on going for years, as they cant even do the simplest drainage piping without saying it cant be performed.

              I love hearing EXCUSES how and why jobs cant be done I like hearing it wont work especially from folks who know NOTHING what so ever about what they are talking about.

            • #299111
              Avatar photofourth year

                Let’s see now. If the joint is 3/4 under water, the cutting oil is going to float on top of it. And if the running rope is open at the bottom for the lead to run out, how are you going to keep the water out? Or is this some of that Australian water you talked about that flows uphill? I don’t think you have ever had actual experience with a wet joint. Probably just read a book about them. I’ll bet you can also pour lead upside down when you use a sanitary tee for a vent fittingl

              • #299112
                Avatar photoSylvanLMP

                  4Th year ask a Mechanic don’t guess what you don’t know I Guess you also NEVER learned about pouring an UPSIDE down joint. Better yet your better off being a “helper” and wait till you get into your 5th year to learn a little more about plummmmin

                  Think about this not USING your helpers mentality.

                  Take a LARGE GLASS BOTTLE and pour Oil into it WATCH the oil sink THEN rise DUH this is amazing HUH Now THINK if you KEEP POURING the oil into a Joint runner (someday some real mechanic will show you one BUT as of now just think of the BASICS) POURING the oil WILL displace the water BUT like I said with in a few seconds You must pour this joint.

                  NOW think about it as the lead BEING heavier (don’t worry your instructor will tell you this next year) then either the oil Or the water will now fill this “impossible joint” and by leaving the runner slightly open to allow the mixed water/oil to get out of the way as you cant have two objects in the same space THAT will be taught to you later on during your 3rd year as a Junior journeyman.

                  Are you SURE you want to be a plumber? ROTO guys can TRAIN you in 12 weeks NOT everyone is honestly cut out to be a real plumber.

                  PSSSSST here is a REAL SECRET DONT tell anyone ok BUT when I was 18 years old in the Navy we Welded UNDER WATER Shhhhhhh dont tell anyone as they may think your CRAZY for believing it.

                  ONLY A 4th YEAR Helper knows WELDING under water is IMPOSSIBLE as the hot metal will splatter all over. I was kidding you as EVERY Apprentice knows water and welding dont mix and its impossible JUST like pouring lead HUH?

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