Lead Drain Pipe — broken at floor level

[MasterPlumbersKeymaster]

I have a pedestal lavatory with a sewer drain which goes into the floor and then bends to go under the floor. Due to poor mounting of the lav., the sewer pipe broke off at floor level. There was not enough sticking above the floor to work with, so I started digging into the floor (tile). After clearing out around the pipe a bit, I think I’ve determined that the pipe is lead. Can I try to sweat (or use some other method) a piece into this pipe so I don’t have to dig all around the pipe, cut it off, and then use a no-hub? It looks to be about 1 1/8 I.D. If I can’t, does anyone have suggestions as to how to break out the floor mortar around the pipe so I can get some sort of coupling around the pipe?

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

You can solder OR lead wipe a copper or brass nipple into this lead drainage line. The key is finding a section of this lead pipe that still has integrity and you can flair out the lead pipe and
make a “cup joint” This is where you form the lead pipe into the shape of a cup (funnel) and slip the new pipe inside it. CLEANLINESS is the key to having the solder alloy adhere to both metals. Due to the very low melting temperature of the lead
(D type)pipe you should prehead the better conductor 1st (Brass or copper) and then with the use of a plumbers laddle pour the solder alloy into the CUP fitting. Try getting bar solder like Flemico Number one OR make your our mixture of 40-60 solder.. 40 percent tin 60 percent lead. The lower the tin content the lower the melting temperature and the more pasty range to work with.
Do not over heat this alloy and clean the lead as much as you can and USE a good quality flux.

I use this systm a lot to salvage the plumbing in older homes (1922) around here so as not to destroy the origional marble floors..
Keep a fire extinguisher near by. Have fun.

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SylvanLMP

[jack spotzParticipant]

well chuck… sylvan gave you a perfect description of how this is accomplished. have you tried it yet? i’m curious to see if you got it done. this is a fun joint to do for an experienced plumber because of the difficulty and the fact that thats the dead man way. and there aren’t any of the dead men who did this type plumbing around to show us how. HEY SYLVAN… have you ever wiped a joint? i haven’t but i neend to have my dad show me what he knows before its too late. he hasn’t done it either but he at least WATCHED his dad and granddad do the joints.

[GuestParticipant]

Well, gentleman. I tried it, but you were right that it needs to be a nice CLEAN pipe. I tried to solder vs. the cup method, since the pipe I’m soldering into bends at 45 deg. The solder filled the hole nicely, but water spits out of the seam between the solder and the lead pipe, especially when the entire basin is being drained after filling it up. I know this is going to break your heart, but I think I’m going to just seal this joint with some Plumber’s Goop. There really isn’t any pressure behind these holes, and the solder is doing its job of keeping the pipe stable. Thanks for the advice!

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

jack spotz wrote on 08 April 2000 at 11:18 PM:
well chuck… sylvan gave you a perfect description of how this is accomplished. have you tried it yet? i’m curious to see if you got it done. this is a fun joint to do for an experienced plumber because of the difficulty and the fact that thats the dead man way. and there aren’t any of the dead men who did this type plumbing around to show us how. HEY SYLVAN… have you ever wiped a joint? i haven’t but i neend to have my dad show me what he knows before its too late. he hasn’t done it either but he at least WATCHED his dad and granddad do the joints.

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Chuck wrote on 12 April 2000 at 03:21 PM:
Well, gentleman. I tried it, but you were right that it needs to be a nice CLEAN pipe. I tried to solder vs. the cup method, since the pipe I’m soldering into bends at 45 deg. The solder filled the hole nicely, but water spits out of the seam between the solder and the lead pipe, especially when the entire basin is being drained after filling it up. I know this is going to break your heart, but I think I’m going to just seal this joint with some Plumber’s Goop. There really isn’t any pressure behind these holes, and the solder is doing its job of keeping the pipe stable. Thanks for the advice!

Sorry Jack BUT even a 3nd year apprentice should know how to wipe a lead joint.
AS a matter of FACT YESTERDAY I wiped a LEAD joint on a LEAD trap in a Brown stone building that had in laid wood ceiling I didn’t feel like destroying JUST to make life easier for me

Thankfully your in a place where the plastic mentality Fernco coupling will suffice.
Fortunately unlike your mentality there are lots of GREAT want to be Mechanics still out there like my helper who still wipes lead joints But give him time as he is only 18 years old before he really becomes a decent mechanic. What you fail to understand Jack is a lot of cities NY, Chicago, Boston, etc., have lots and lots of building over 150 years old still standing and these piping system still can be salvaged by a “decent mechanic” who would like to TRY a cup joint rather then destroy and old work of art floor because the half assed mechanic never learned his/her trade properly.

PLUMBER= LEAD WORKER DUH

Chuck
There is Pressure on this drain connection it is .434 TIMES the height.

Chuck congratulations for trying once someone tries their best that’s all anyone can ask. You now have several options to complete this job.

1- Get a wire brush like a 1/2 fitting brush and clean the leaking area extra clean and try some rosin /solder like they used to use on electrical connections-

2- Get Hercules SWIF solder 50-50 and follow directions as per tinning and soldering VERY low temperature

3- Be like the plastic/rubber specialists and get Hercules Proproxy and again clean the area then use this great NON master material BUT it will last for many many years of trouble free service.

Now that you at least tried and actually made this connection stronger than the original YOU can teach Jacks dad what he should have passed on to his son THE SKILL A real plumber should know as ANYONE can destroy the old art work rather then keep it going for many years.

Please Check out this article Chuck
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbing/plumbviews/roofdrain.html

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SylvanLMP

[Author]

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