EEE ZZZ Lay Drain

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    • #278490
      Anonymous

      What causes and EEE ZZZ Lay Drain system to fail when the soil is deemed permeable by the Health Department and the water table is 43 in. below the surface? System has been completely flooded three times in the last two years. It is in Beaufort County, NC. The system is less than 2 years old.

    • #298604
      John Aldrich1

      Paul, I suspect that the cause of your system failure is not the choice of the EEE ZZZ Lay Drain system in your leach field. If the leach field design is not correct, or the installation of the material was not properly performed, the leach field is going to fail no matter which alternative leach field material is employed. I am familiar with the EZ Drain product from reading about it in the literature, but have no personal experience with the product because it is not on the “Approved Technology List” in Colorado. I believe that the EZ Drain product is a good alternative to the conventional gravel filled leach field, but the leach field design should be such that it allows for alternation of septic tank effluent flow.

      Most Individual Sewage Disposal System (ISDS) Regulations in place in the USA promulgate, and allow soil absorption system designs that resist easy maintenance, and are designed to fail, or at best have a very short service life. Just because the local health department technician approved your site for a soil absorption system, it does not mean that system is going to work.

      If you would like to discuss this issue further send me an e-mail message describing in detail the components of your system, and the existing site constraints on your property. I also invite any ISDS Regulator who takes umbrage with the above comments, or who wishes to learn more about my minimum design criteria for on-site sewage treatment systems that work to contact me.

      I do not fear a large response from the regulatory community to my invitation because it is my experience in dealing with many different regulators, that most will not even be aware of the MasterPlumbers.com Bulletin Board, or if they are aware of it, do not regularly monitor the inquiries or responses. Most just don’t care.

      lmajwa@aol.com

      John W. Aldrich
      Septic System Consultant
      P.O. Box 205
      Timnath, Colorado 80547
      (970) 482 7460

    • #298605
      Guest

      quote:


      Originally posted by John Aldrich:
      Paul, I suspect that the cause of your system failure is not the choice of the EEE ZZZ Lay Drain system in your leach field. If the leach field design is not correct, or the installation of the material was not properly performed, the leach field is going to fail no matter which alternative leach field material is employed. I am familiar with the EZ Drain product from reading about it in the literature, but have no personal experience with the product because it is not on the “Approved Technology List” in Colorado. I believe that the EZ Drain product is a good alternative to the conventional gravel filled leach field, but the leach field design should be such that it allows for alternation of septic tank effluent flow.

      Most Individual Sewage Disposal System (ISDS) Regulations in place in the USA promulgate, and allow soil absorption system designs that resist easy maintenance, and are designed to fail, or at best have a very short service life. Just because the local health department technician approved your site for a soil absorption system, it does not mean that system is going to work.

      If you would like to discuss this issue further send me an e-mail message describing in detail the components of your system, and the existing site constraints on your property. I also invite any ISDS Regulator who takes umbrage with the above comments, or who wishes to learn more about my minimum design criteria for on-site sewage treatment systems that work to contact me.

      I do not fear a large response from the regulatory community to my invitation because it is my experience in dealing with many different regulators, that most will not even be aware of the MasterPlumbers.com Bulletin Board, or if they are aware of it, do not regularly monitor the inquiries or responses. Most just don’t care.

      lmajwa@aol.com

      John W. Aldrich
      Septic System Consultant
      P.O. Box 205
      Timnath, Colorado 80547
      (970) 482 7460


      John,

      I take offense to your comments about regulators. As you can see we are computer literate enough to find your remarks. All of the ones I know (somewhere around a thousand) would not be in the regulatory business if they did not care. This is usually the only motivation drives them to keep with it, since the pay is typically low and the headaches are high.

      Mark Hooks

    • #298606
      John Aldrich1

      Paul, was it Mark Hooks who approved the EZ Drain soil absorption system for your site in Beaufort County, NC? I have not received a response from you in regard to my response to your inquiry. What have you done to solve the problem of your failing leach field? I think it would be informative to others in the septic system industry to learn of your solution.

      Mark, you certainly have the right to be offended by my remarks, and I have the right to offend you. Your response to my offending remarks was posted on this forum exactly 5 months and 10 days after my criticisms of regulators were made, and you are the only regulator that has cared enough, or was offended enough, to accept my challenge to respond. This rather long period of time it has taken you to confront my criticisms proves my point that most septic system regulators do not monitor the MasterPlumbers.com Bulletin Board regularly, or just do not care.

      Please notice that I wrote that MOST regulators just don’t care. I accept that there are some regulators that care about these issues, but they are an exception in my experience. I congratulate you upon being one regulator who really does care about the environment, and the public health. However, your response was just to state that you were offended by my remarks, and to complain that most regulators receive very low pay for their efforts. You did not choose to inquire about possible solutions to the problem of failing septic systems, nor how you could implement changes in the ISDS regulations in place in your jurisdiction to produce system designs that are successful.

      The local County Regulator with which I work is an exception to the rule in that he has strived to make substantive changes in the ISDS Regulations that control septic systems in our County. He has also supported my efforts to bring experimental system technologies to our County by issuing permits for same. By the way, he is paid very well (in excess of $58,000 annually plus generous benefits), and he is worth it in my view.

      Well Mark, I stand behind my original criticisms of the regulatory community. Perhaps the majority do care, but most have not sought to make changes in the regulations to produce septic systems that lend themselves to easy operation and maintenance. What can motivate those who care to pursue significant changes in the way that they do their jobs? Please respond to this question on the MasterPlumbers.com Bulletin Board so that the few regulators who are “computer literate” can obtain some direction. JWA

    • #298607
      John Aldrich1

      Mark, upon reviewing the inquiry posted by Paul, my response to his inquiry, your response to my offensive comments (offensive in your view, the truth in my view), and my second response to you and Paul, I noticed that you did not offer any wisdom, or advice to Paul’s dilemma. What, in your view, is the answer to Paul’s question? I trust that we will not have to wait 5 months for your reply.

      In regard to the truth, Aristotle wrote, “The truth is that, which once revealed, cannot be denied.” JWA

    • #298608
      John Aldrich1

      Paul and Mark, I posted this message just to get our discussion back on top of the list of responses. It has been 10 days since my last word on this subject, and I still have not heard from either one of you, nor from any other regulator in the industy. I also entered this response so that a “flaming toilet” will appear next to the discussion subject. :>)

      I think that this is a good forum in which to have a dialog about this very important subject. I urge any health department official that has the responsibility for promulgating minimum design standards for on-site sewage disposal systems to respond to this message. Lets get into a constructive dialog to make substantive changes in the way we design and construct on-site sewage treatment systems. If you are satisfied with the minimum design standards that you have in force, and the systems that they produce do not fail, please share with the rest of the on-site industry the story of your success. JWA

      John W. Aldrich
      Septic System Consultant
      P.O. Box 205
      Timnath, Colorado 80547
      lmajwa@aol.com

    • #298609
      John Aldrich1

      Paul and Mark, well it has been over a week since I posted a message to you guys, asking you to respond to my questions. I am thinking that Paul is no longer monitoring the web site, because he has found a solution to the problem he discussed in his original inquiry, posted on March 27, 2000. I responded to your original inquiry on March 30, 2000. If you have solved your septic system problem, please be considerate enough to reveal the solution to the rest of us who monitor this Bulletin Board.

      Mark, you have claimed that you do monitor this site regularly, so I must believe that you have not responded to my message because you are still “offended” by my remarks. Hey Mark, get over it. If you are waiting for an apology from me for my offensive remarks, well OK, I apoligize. Please notice that I DID NOT refer to Health Department Officials as “low born, scum sucking, gutter slugs”. :>)

      I really wish to enter into a professional dialog with you, or any other on-site system regulator out there, about the generally inadequate design standards for on-site systems currently in place in the regulations in most juridictions of the World. I believe that we can jointly make an impact on improving practices, which currently are producing systems that are designed to fail.

      If you would prefer an alternate forum to have this discussion, then propose the forum of your choice. I might suggest the National Small Flows Clearinghouse (NSFC) Discussion Group. I look forward to hearing from both of you. JWA

    • #298610
      Guest

      Hi, I found this site today and read your past exchanges with interest. What caught my attention was your idea that systems were designed to fail. Where would I look (perhaps on this site?)to find information that would allow me to fix my system without the expense of hiring engineers etc.? Details: My land is sandy in South Alberta, Canada with 4-8 inches of what they call topsoil in this area (not that nice dark stuff). My tank is a fiberglass model and I have had problems with the field filling in with solids (including roots). I don’t think that gravel was used in the field – just sand.

      Thank you,
      Richard

    • #298611
      John Aldrich1

      Richard McClung, I will post a new message to the Bulletin Board to respond to your inquiry. JWA

    • #298612
      John Aldrich1

      Paul and Mark, well here it is Oct. 3, 2000 in Colorado, and I have not heard a word from either one of you guys. Do you have nothing to say? If that is the case, then please respond to this inquiry, and say so. JWA

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