Natural Gas, Hot Water, Home Heating System

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    • #278169
      MasterPlumbers
      Keymaster

      I want to convert my oil hot water heating system to natural gas.
      Can anyon recommend a good high efficency system. I have 3 zones currently, about 2200 sq. ft.
      I have heard of small systems that can mount on the wall totally replacing the current boiler. My hot water is also heated via this system.

    • #297898
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      Why would you want to convert from HIGH efficient Oil to a gas that is not only dangerious BUT also does not heat as well as # 2 oil.

      Natural gas has a heating value of 900-1,200 BTU per cubic foot.

      Oil has a heating value of 138,000-140,000 BTU per gallon

      When converting from Oil to Gas you must have the chimney/flue cleaned.

      Granted gas burns cleaner BUt it non forgiving in case of of leak BOOM.

      At least with oil heat you have an option as to supplier not so with gas.

      When you need service on an oil burner the oil supplier will take care of service.

      When you need service on a gas fired boiler/air handler your lucky if the so called “heating guy” has any formal training as most stumblebums who cant make a living go into the heating trades as no license is required EXCEPT for oil heat they require a Class A license.

      As a licensed Master Plumber We install gas fired boilers BUT in good conscience If you think your going to save money considerig the cost a of a new gas boiler your “payback” make take years and years.

      If you have any questions please feel free to E mail me.

    • #297899
      Guest
      Participant

      If you are going to do the change, it is a good idea to wall-mount your new boiler, as the old chimney will most likely have to be relined to take the lower temperatures of the high-efficiency gas units, or the moisture will corrode the old oversized chimney. A wall-mount unit is ordinarily direct-vented, so you would need to do nothing to the chimney, not even use it.

      A boiler, such as: http://www.monitorproducts.com/
      and those by other major brands are available.

      The other alternative is to go to a new high-efficiency oil boiler.

    • #297900
      Guest
      Participant

      To SylvanLMP,
      You must work for the OIL industry to buy into their PR so much. Lets get you facts straight. One gallaon of Oil DOES NOT EQUAL one CF of gas. That numner is more like 145 CF of GAS, so using your numbers that would make gas 130,000 to 174,000 BTU’s for that one gallon of oil. Looks like gas wins on the high side. But that all really depends on the heating system.
      As for going BOOM, here again you reveal yourself with the PR scare tatics of the oil industry.
      If you want scare, just say EPA.
      Live with that fear in your back yard.
      Oh let’s talk smell, no I think this is enough. An no I don’t work for the GAS industry I have used both for many years. ALl I wanted was som good gas heater brands, not an oil sales pitch. Thanks anyway.

      Harold thanks for your help.

    • #297901
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      quote:


      Originally posted by DJJ1:
      To SylvanLMP,
      You must work for the OIL industry to buy into their PR so much. Lets get you facts straight. One gallaon of Oil DOES NOT EQUAL one CF of gas. That numner is more like 145 CF of GAS, so using your numbers that would make gas 130,000 to 174,000 BTU’s for that one gallon of oil. Looks like gas wins on the high side. But that all really depends on the heating system.
      As for going BOOM, here again you reveal yourself with the PR scare tatics of the oil industry.
      If you want scare, just say EPA.
      Live with that fear in your back yard.
      Oh let’s talk smell, no I think this is enough. An no I don’t work for the GAS industry I have used both for many years. ALl I wanted was som good gas heater brands, not an oil sales pitch. Thanks anyway.

      Harold thanks for your help.


      “Natural gas has a heatin”g value of 900-1,200 BTU per cubic foot.

      Oil has a heating value of 138,000-140,000 BTU per gallon”

      I STAND by my numbers BUT since YOU guys brought it up HOW MUCH does Nat Gas cost to EQUAL one gallon of OIL

      Lets also ask WHY does NY City BIGGEST UTILITY BURN OIL and wanted to use COAL rather then Natural Gas which these folks SELL

      Reason GAS COST TOO MUCH even for them

      As a Boiler inspector I see the dangers of GAS as opposed to Oil combustion BUT if your talking EPA then of course Gas is the only choice as Oil is considered hazardous waste.

      Talking BTU per $$$$$ OIL is KING

      Think about the RESTRICTIONS that gas suppliers impose on DUEL fuel burners.

      On the coldest days they fine you if you use gas.

      Oil is the choice when it comes down to heating look at any large building WHY Oil and not GA$$$$$$$

      Even NY STEAM is derived from OIL NOT GA$$$$$$$$$.

      Next case pleaseee

    • #297902
      Guest
      Participant

      I understand your worry about an underground tank and the EPA. Unfortunately, not many homeowners are aware of the Roth aboveground storage tanks that are available. http://www.hartandiliff.com/productsroth.html
      I like the 1 million dollar spill protection insurance that comes with it. This takes care of a major objection. The tank is actually a double wall with a spill protection device that forces the oil company to clean the outer shell if the tank delivery somehow lets it overfill. It looks like a little storage shed if the owner puts a little roof over the top.

      You can compare fuel costs at: http://www.hydronic.net/hydronic/hea/FuelCalc.htm

    • #297903
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      quote:


      Originally posted by Harold hydronic.net:
      I understand your worry about an underground tank and the EPA. Unfortunately, not many homeowners are aware of the Roth aboveground storage tanks that are available. http://www.hartandiliff.com/productsroth.html
      I like the 1 million dollar spill protection insurance that comes with it. This takes care of a major objection. The tank is actually a double wall with a spill protection device that forces the oil company to clean the outer shell if the tank delivery somehow lets it overfill. It looks like a little storage shed if the owner puts a little roof over the top.

      You can compare fuel costs at: http://www.hydronic.net/hydronic/hea/FuelCalc.htm


      Harold, there are lots of wall mounted gas units as I used them in my offices BUT I was thinking of “Payback” time when going from Oil to gas.

      As a Master Plumber I am only licensed to install gas units and not oil as Oil requires an Oil burner installers license.

      Now speaking as a boiler inspector I have found for the most part Oil is a much safer fuel with much higher out puts available then gas fired equipment.

      Of course I can just as easily say “Oil heat forget about it”!

      WHY Pay in advance for this smelly fuel Good OLE American Natural Gas you pay as you use it No storage tanks or deliveries and no worries about foreign governments going nuts with price increases.

      Then again lets talk service after all Oil needs filters and nozzles changed and has much higher stack temperatures wasting much more heat up the chimney.

      So what if Gas explodes we all have to die sometime and CO we can get a detector in the boiler room.

      With all the safety lock outs on Gas heat it creates more work for the mechanic to trouble shoot.

      Hey if you have ONE gas supplier let them raise the prices who cares only the Public service commission AFTER a zillion complaints.

      At least with oil dealers you can lock in a fixed price and get 24-7 SERVICE

      I think BUNKER “C” is the way to go NO Smell until actually cooking and the heating value puts Gas and # 2 to shame.

      Very easy storage and NO spillage.

      Now Harold if you pushed Oil Id have to go Electric CLEAN DRY HEAT no noisy banging of steam piping Or pumps that need lubrication and you only heat the room your in and no pipe freezing NO storage space wasted for boilers or storage tanks and it is safe and NO service required.

      No possibility of floods, pay as you use it. You can even get a bulk rate for using electric and you can even fine tune the rheostat.

      Hey if one heater fails SO WHAT this is not the case with a step up transformer or a fail safe electric eye or damper that fails.

      Yes, electric heating is the way to go why have dangerous gas lines in the home and extra piping to fail and having unskilled heating guys screwing up everything when knowing how qualified 99.9999999% most electricians are after all they CAN READ the NEC and they can fully appreciate IRE and ambient temperatures of the circular mil of a wire and resistance with SPDT switching relay.

      Electricians have great formulas like Coulombs and nano seconds and micro Henries and know when increasing the wire size and the left handed rule of magnetism with WYE and delta windings and a whetstone bridge and full wave rectifiers.
      Series and parallel wiring and a combination of each.

      Using a Simpson 260 is a work of art in the proper hands.

      HEATING with GAS is BORING and great for the non licensed guys who dabble in heatin stuff especially in this country as we now are a society of victims so the unemployables can now go into NON electric heating stuff.

      Ah imagine the inner satisfaction to be a real Master Electrician working on Johnson controls electronic (for modulating) and electric for on off and Pneumatic also for modulating and all calibrated by someone who actually knows their job.

      Harold IM giving up plummmin and heatin and looking to learn a REAL Trade.

      Long live electric CLEAN POWER electric powered by the wind and sun…..

      Sylvan, Stationary Engineer

    • #297904
      Guest
      Participant

      Sylvan, you are the man of the future. Few others have caught on to the inevitabilty of the fuel cell revolution about to appear. Natural gas piped to the home is to be converted to electricity without combustion by fuel cells. All appliances and heat are to be provided through electric control (as they are now anyways.) Electric heat with decorative wall and suspended ceiling panels will take over the heating trades.

      Larger units for commercial establishments are coupled with the Capstone turbine to boost electric output. You will eventually only see heating technicians as stationary engineers and heat pump technicians. Even the molasses bunker C oil (which couldn’t explode any more than the leftovers from the product, asphalt.) Fuel oil will go straight to the chemical companies for conversion to plastic pipe, appliances, clothes, cars, etc.

      There is time to mend our ways.

    • #297905
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      quote:


      Originally posted by Harold hydronic.net:
      Sylvan, you are the man of the future. Few others have caught on to the inevitabilty of the fuel cell revolution about to appear. Natural gas piped to the home is to be converted to electricity without combustion by fuel cells. All appliances and heat are to be provided through electric control (as they are now anyways.) Electric heat with decorative wall and suspended ceiling panels will take over the heating trades.

      Larger units for commercial establishments are coupled with the Capstone turbine to boost electric output. You will eventually only see heating technicians as stationary engineers and heat pump technicians. Even the molasses bunker C oil (which couldn’t explode any more than the leftovers from the product, asphalt.) Fuel oil will go straight to the chemical companies for conversion to plastic pipe, appliances, clothes, cars, etc.

      There is time to mend our ways.


      AMEN,
      Harold I honestly like the idea of stationary engineers doing heating, As the testing for them is on going training annd more training.

      Too many stumble bums are now into “heating” . Have a great one and the FUTURE is NOW

    • #297906
      kenny b
      Participant

      to answer your question:
      Weil Mclain/Utica are two, but there are many.
      for the rest- run your own numbers for gas/oil per cost of btu.
      your location is very important, but my choice would always be gas first, its cheaper-cleaner-less maint., no smell.

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