gas pipe joints

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    • #278135
      MasterPlumbers
      Keymaster

      Just Curious . Local code allows the use of copper pipe for gas. All fittings must be brazed- not soft soldered-Why ? Does the gas break down the soft solder or is just for strength?

    • #297809
      fourth year
      Participant

      In the event of a fire, the heat would melt the soft solder and the joints would separate, allowing the gas to add to the fire.

    • #297810
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      Strength as a properly brazed joint is much stronger then the base metal 87,000 PSI tensile strength using approved alloys plus a melting point around 1,200 F. MUCH less then a cigarette heat flame.

      See a helper would never ever THINK about ship board fires where the steel actually melts so a solder joint really wouldn’t make that much of a difference HUH?

      The helpers lack of mentality would never also bother to read about acetylene and other fuel tanks that have a LEAD fusible plugs that is designed to MELT to prevent explosions BUT hey this shows more and more how the training in this country is a complete DISASTER and a failure.

      Even air conditioning systems require either double flare or BRAZED joints vibration for one factor and higher pressure ratings. Even using 95-5 Tin Antimony your joint strength is only around 16,000 PSI About heat melting the joint in a fire then obviously this helper never read any of the NFPA findings The NFPA recently approved certain plastics as well as copper piping for use in sprinkler systems PLUS if this helper had bothered to read his 1st YEAR apprentice books he would have known copper melts at 1981 degrees within the range of most fires. Even screwed joints in a fire situation will leak and the normal gas flexy will not stand up to most fires either. Using a helpers lack of reasoning why would anyone allow welders to use rubber hoses for Oxyacetylene welding applications as doesn’t RUBBER melt faster then a solder joint?

      Some gas fuels are corrosive and the tin content of the solder cannot take being exposed to this chemical action. The Key is PRESSURE not the alloy. Even inert gases are brazed joints BUT hey the fire theory works if you don’t use common sense I guess as welding hoses are known NEVER to catch on fire from hot slag. Man this country needs to get back to basics in TRAINING
      One other factor about soft solders is the non skilled use self cleaning fluxes which contain some type of acid that will continue to eat away at the base metal if not properly flushed out and here lies the problem. AGAIN For the RECORD NEVER ever all A helper in your home other to get coffee for the real mechanics or clean up after them NEVER TRUST a helper to do even minor repairs as they just don’t know anything. Your better off doing it yourself then ever allowing a helper to dabble on your piping or drainage systems. Demand to see the Master plumbers license and do not take any excuses. Your life may depend on it.

      [Edited by SylvanLMP on 16 February 2001]

    • #297811
      fourth year
      Participant

      Dear S:
      Stop by some time and I will show you my master plumber license. And get your own d— coffee.

    • #297812
      DP
      Participant

      Big man you sure are knowledgeable but I feel sorry for the underlings. Surely all your helpers are not peabrained

    • #297813
      Moderator
      Participant

      Please keep ontopic

    • #297814
      fourth year
      Participant

      Just as an advisory, do speak about it too loudly. If one of those plumbers complained to the EEOC, you would not only pay them the overtime, but a hefty fine as well. My son’s employer had them come in a half hour early one day a week for a meeting and just paid straight time. When the EEOC heard about it, they got their OT plus interest, and the fine put the company out of business.

    • #297815
      Richard
      Participant

      Fourth year: Why is an old man such as yourself only a helper? You should be looking for retirement, not starting a career you obviously aren’t suited for.

      I agree with Sylvan. I like to surround myself with chemists older and more experienced than myself, since they keep my on my toes, and always talk about the way things were done “in the old days” (many of which are either archaic or deemed unsafe by fairly recent standards). For example, did you know formic acid used to be obtained from the destructive distillation of ants?

      Older chemists like being around me since I am abreast on the latest technological advances and theories (due to me being a relatively recent graduate), so I keep them on their toes as well. Even my girlfriend and I are constantly testing each other (she’s a geologist and chemical engineer that designs and develops test methods for water filters and reverse osmosis systems, I’m an analytical chemist and philosopher).

      As Sylvan avoids helpers in favor of qualified mechanics, I do not hire lab techs, since they may be able to obtain data, they typically don’t have any clue how to interpret or use that data, so I end up having to do that. Ergo, lab techs do not save time since I have to finish their work. Full fledged chemists know how to use data they obtain. I have a few Ph.D’s that I rely on for regulatory affairs, esp when dealing with the EPA.

      You never know in what form knowledge will come in. Even you teach me a lot helper, you teach me what NOT to do. For that I am ever grateful.

      “Live and learn from fools and from sages” – Dream On, Aerosmith

      The friendly chemist

      [Edited by Richard on 20 March 2001]

    • #297816
      fourth year
      Participant

      Who ever said I was a helper. You are reading too much into the name. I could call myself Hotandsexy, and it might or might not describe myself. Just as Fourth Year does not necessarily imply anything about my experience. It is just a name that I knew would get a rise from a particular poster. I have probably been in the plumbing business since you were born. I know I started before Sylvan was even thought of. And I will pit my knowledge against his any time if I think his advice is either off the track or inaccurate.

    • #297817
      Richard
      Participant

      Helper: Why no profile? And if you are so experienced, why don’t you have a license? The only people that say you do not need a license usually failed the licensing exam(s).

      I had a guy come into my office saying he had 60 credits beyond his masters, and asked why he didn’t just get his PhD (which is 90 credits past a bachelors) and his response was “I don’t want to collect degrees”. I knew right away he failed a cumulative exam somewhere, so I turned him down outright.

      Another ploy people use for explaining their lack of accomplishment is to blame everyone else for their own shortcomings. Its hard to look in the mirror and say “I screwed up”. Its fine to make a mistake, or even choose the wrong career path, but it is the path of wisdom to not wallow in it, but to amend yourself to never make the same error again.

      I am sick with leukemia, which forced me to leave graduate school. I don’t blame it nor anything else for the decision I made of my own free accord to leave school, and I avow myself to finish my PhD as soon as I feel up to it. I am not asking “Who dumped in my pants”. I take responsibility for my actions (or lack thereof). I strongly suggest you do the same.

      The Friendly Chemist

    • #297818
      SylvanLMP
      Participant

      quote:


      Originally posted by fourth year:
      Just as an advisory, do speak about it too loudly. If one of those plumbers complained to the EEOC, you would not only pay them the overtime, but a hefty fine as well. My son’s employer had them come in a half hour early one day a week for a meeting and just paid straight time. When the EEOC heard about it, they got their OT plus interest, and the fine put the company out of business.


      Wrong AGAIN helper, still NOT reading?! THESE gentlemen WERE PAID and the BONUS was far. It takes a lot of TIME AND A HALF to make over $20,000 I My paying them far exceeded any OT money they may have gotten.

      Man!, any other FIELDS you would like to show you have no clue in BESIDES plumbing and business?

      [Edited by Moderator on 20 March 2001]

    • #297819
      Wallingford Plm+Htg
      Participant

      I find it hard to believe anyone actually bought your story about the big bonus.You say you gave them the bonus because they saved your butt from deadline fines.I don’t see 93 days under the deadline as even coming close to being late.Even if the story were half true you would still be liable for overtime pay since a bonus is money paid out above your regular pay.I have to wonder why you spend so much time trying to impress everyone with how much you supposedly make and pay your help.To most people this is a private matter.

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