kinds of pipe question

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    • #277241
      DAVID MICHAEL FOGG

      My husband and I need to have the pipes in our house (bought a year ago) replaced. When the house was built the cheapest thinnest copper pipe was used. And now after 20 years of hard water running thru them they are starting to develop holes. We have well water but found out we have no filter or softener for the water. So before he has a major leak we want to replace the stuff (its all on one side of the house so it makes it easy). My questions is weither we should replace with thicker copper pipe, PCV pipe or the new flexible pipe?
      thanks for any help

    • #295799
      PLUMBILL

      PVC pipe is not permitted for water piping in homes by most plumbing codes. CPVC is permitted but I would use pex pipe before using cpvc, copper pipe is fine if the water is treated correctly.

    • #295800
      GarySlusser

      Hardness, iron and manganese tha tare removed by a water softener do not cause pinholes in copper tubing. Low pH (acidic) water and high DO and CO2 content do as certain bacteria and the acid they produce along with electrical gounds such as phone, TV etc. or the use of the water line as the building’s electrical ground electrictrode and/or poor electrical system grounding do also plus dissimiliar metals corrosion. And then there is errosion damage from high TDS and chlorides etc, but those holes are usually in or just past fittings like elbows and tees and especially in hot water recirculation systems.

      I’d opt for PEX run in one peice to each fixture.

      Gary
      Quality Water Associates

    • #295801
      DUNBAR

      Have the ph levels tested in your water; acid neutralizers can be bought if this is the underlying problem.

      Also, determine if one side (hot or cold) took the brunt of the damage.

      Post back with your findings, there might be an underlying cause relative to your situation.



      “Your best interest is secured by making the right decisions the first time.”

    • #295802
      shadowcat11

      Have the ph levels tested in your water; acid neutralizers can be bought if this is the underlying problem.”

      are one of the home bougth testing kits good or should we have someone come out and test the water for us?

      it seems that the 3 leaks we have had are in the cold water lines. 2 in the bathroom area 1 near the washer.

      thanks

    • #295803
      GarySlusser

      Having the water tested is only one part of establishing the causes of pinholes in copper tubing. Usually there is more than one contributing factor or cause.

      Pitting allows a safe haven for bacteria to sit up house and most bacteria produce an acidic waste and acid eats metals, especially soft metals such as copper tubing. All waters contain some bacteria from time to time if not always.

      An acid neutralizer is not going to help if pitting is going on in the interior surface of your copper tubing. Any bacteria continue to live in their little haven under any ‘protective’ coating hardness scale forms if any. Most acid neutralizing filters add hardness to the water. MD, Washington DC and Boston are prime examples of leaking copper that anyone wanting to can very easily look up; their protective film ideas aren’t working. Your pinholes say internal pitting is ocurring. BTW, bacteria in those pits create their own protection in the form of encrustation.

      Furthermore, the damage is already done to such an extent that the wall thickness of the tubing is probably paper thin in certain areas (future pinholes); or you wouldn’t have pinhole leaks. Dissolved oxygen and CO2 and/or carbonic acid content in the water are a prime cause of pinholes. And then there are the electrical causes, how’s the electrical system grounding in the house?

      Gary
      Quality Water Associates

      » This message has been edited by Gary Slusser on 19 May 2004

    • #295804
      DUNBAR

      Home test kits are only giving a bland answer and a test from your local water authority that deals with testing is your best bet.

      Treating the symptoms do not remove the problem, thus the reasoning for acid neutralizers to remedy the problem once your piping is replaced.

      Pinholing is uncommon across the United States and abroad, so your situation should be addressed in the appropriate manner to correct the issue of pinholing, because there is a great deal more that pertains to your potable water system.



      “Your best interest is secured by making the right decisions the first time.”

    • #295805
      shadowcat11

      “And then there are the electrical causes, how’s the electrical system grounding in the house? “

      our neighbor is an electrician, and know a little about plumbing so he helped us fix the leaks.. he aslo was wondering about the electrical grounding.. he checke it all out and didn’t find any problems..

      whne we do re-pipe the house should we get a filtration system on the well? and if yes what kind?

      I will be calling today to have someone come out and test the water.

      thanks for all your help

    • #295806
      nicktheplumber

      You didn’t say whether or not your leaks were at the solder joints or in the runs of pipe. I have seen a few cases of joint leaks caused by the use of acid core solder with poor soldering/cleaning technique.

    • #295807
      GarySlusser

      Other causes are excessive flux and not reaming the end of the copper.

      Anyone can test water but the numbers of folks that can troubleshoot the causes of pinholes are few.

      Gary
      Quality Water Associates

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