Sink odor

[Daniel James Petrovic]

I recently installed an RO water purifier system and a new larger in-sink-erator under my kitchen double-sink. I also switched the relative positions of the disposer and the sink drain, such that the disposer is closest to the wall drain outlet.
The RO system required the insertion of a brine discharge tube adapter through the pipe right under the sink. The length of adapter, in conjunction with the larger size disposer, resulted in a hook-up drop forcing me to mount the p-trap backwards (i.e. tall side to wall and short side to disposer), in order to reach the connection to the drain pipe from the wall.
I now have a recurring odor emanating from the sink that I never had before. I can alleviate it with periodic bleach treatment down the sink, but I am unable to totally eliminate it.
I have noticed that when the disposer runs there is a gurgling flow to the right towards the sink. Could it be that this flow is pushing debris into the RO’s brine discharge tube, settles there, and is not cleared by the brine outflow at low pressure?
Could it be that the backwards p-trap is causing to high of a gravity “hill” for the disposer debris to climb such that a residue remains in the p-trap, causing the odor, despite a lot of flushing.
Is there a “diverter” type of connector that I can use to connect the disposer and the sink drains, and how should it be best attached?
Should I disconnect the brine discharge tube and adapter from the bottom of the sink and raise it substantially above the level of the sink bottom? Since I have no alternate discharge facility, I might insert a T-type connector in series with the pipe from the disposer to sink, and connect the brine discharge adapter to it through an upwards projecting extension. This may also eliminate the present hook-up drop; but if I still have a height offset in reaching the wall drain using standard pipe parts, what else is available?
I would appreciate any recommendations. Thanks for your help.
Sink odor [email protected]

[Retired plbg1Participant]

They call that reversing the trap. Your GD should be connected to trap and other bowlmshould drain into a tee right above the trap. You are drainning that brine into that long arm and it is leaving an odar. Try drainning it above the trap. You might get a glue return bend and make your own trap, which might be lower, check it out.

[Robert Stephen MortonParticipant]

Retired Plumbing “Inspector” I cannot believe that you would advise a DIY to do something so dangerous.
This Poster has by his discription, reversed a trap so that he might connect the newly installed “larger insinkerator & RO system.
The RO system is or should be for the “Potable” supply & he has obviously connected to the “Foul” side of the trap There is obviously no “Air Gap”
Mate I can see where Sylvan gets so upset with this Forum when People like you Reply.
Segovia. You obviously care about a good Wholesome “Potable” water supply, because you have installed a RO system.
Call a Licensed Plumber to properly connect your new fixtures.
Bob

[SelgasParticipant]

Robert

I am with you mate with this one geez………. mind you I still cannot figure how the American’s can get water to flow out of their pipes anyways – perhaps this is a good example?

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Selgas Services Ltd
Craftsman Gasfitters, Plumbers, Electrical Service Technicians

[Retired plbg1Participant]

Mr. Norton
I told him to use a y fitting on the house side of the trap . H e eMailed me later and i told him that. H e sent me a pic. of the disp. con. with a center outlet waste and I told him that was wrong, I guese it is okay with you. I told him to run trap over to disp. and use end outlet waste to con. other bowl and us e a Y tailpiece on house side of that for the RO.

[Retired plbg1Participant]

I like these people who sit around and dont answer the questions and when somebody else ans. them and make a mistake the run then down the drain, IPC code page 48 par. #611.2 says you can drain the RO through a air gap are air gap device. Well we alowed them to drain in a Y fitting. We also required a Backflow valve with a relief port, If he had one on the RO he would be protected. Knowing how he con. it to water with out being there is hard to help him, he said he had some device to conn. to drain.If he went up to drain he probably has the drain line in PVC hose it must be traped.

[GonzParticipant]

With digital cameras common, you guys should post pictures/sketches of the installations that you are talking about. That would elliminate alot of confusion for sure.

[segoviaParticipant]

Hello everyone:

I am really glad to see that my problem has raised so much interest. I want to thank all for your suggestions.
Lat me clarify something.
The brine drainage tube (3/8 in.) is connected to an adapter right under the sink. The sink pipe is connected to the GD through a T. Its outlet branch goes down into the short arm of the trap. The long arm of the trap is connected to the drain going to the wall.
Therefore, the brine line, the GD and the sink are on the correct side of the trap, and there is water pool at the bottom of the trap isolating sewer odor. (By the way, the odor I get is not sewer, but more like a musty smell).

Because the taller arm of the trap goes to the wall, the only negative I see is that the profile of the trap is deeper than usual. That is, the trap path looks more like a deep U than a J. This means that the GD debris have to claim a higher hill before they are swept out with the water flow And may be there is some residue left at the bottom of the trap causing the odor. I can’t believe that the brine discharge itself has an odor. But I could be wrong.

I also don’t understand the need for a backflow valve
and relief port mentioned by “Retired Plbg”. I thought the brine output from the faucet is isolated from the purified water from the spout.

Anyway, I discovered some useful information. May be you can comment.
I just ran into a water filter distributor on-line that
has a wye-connector allowing both the dishwasher
discharge hose and the brine runoff connection to be
attached together to the GD input port for the
dishwasher hose. This eliminates the brine discharge
adapter from under the sink, such that I may now raise
the horizontal line from the sink to the GD (going straight into the GD, rather than via a J-bend) and reach
the drain pipe to the wall via a normally connected
trap (avoids reversing the trap). If this wye
connector is available with a collet for the 3/8 inch plastic
tube from the water filter faucet, I may have solved
my problem.

Pass it on in the future, and thanks again.

[DUNBARParticipant]

I am a backflow tester in my state and when I install Reverse Osmosis systems, I specifically ask for a water faucet dispenser that has three attachments undersink: This dispenser is a dispenser with a built-in Air Gap.

Water Feed
Incoming barbed nipple from RO discharge
Outgoing barbed nipple for drain

It cost a little more for the dispenser, but solves the issue of possible cross-connection between potable and drainage….

» This message has been edited by DUNBAR on 03 January 2004

» This message has been edited by DUNBAR on 03 January 2004

[racefanoneParticipant]

Typical RP reply.Would Sylvan have fun with him.

[segoviaParticipant]

Mr. Norton:
What is a DIY mentioned in your reply?

[DUNBARParticipant]

Do it Yourself R

Oops,, I got the toilet on fire now!

» This message has been edited by DUNBAR on 03 January 2004

[ChipCarlborg1Participant]

Hey Peter!!!

I see you seem to have something against American inginuity by your post “I still cannot figure how the American’s can get water to flow out of their pipes anyways” Since you used the word “Mate” I’ll asume you are from Austrailia. Keep in mind, that if it was not for all of the US Sailors that died in the Pacific (I.E. The Battle of Coral Sea), you would be relying on Yamamoto’s grandchildren to do your plumbing. I suggest you re-think your remarks!! Go slip another shrimp on the barbie!!!null

» This message has been edited by Moderator on 12 January 2004

[Robert Stephen MortonParticipant]

Mr Chipcarlborg. Peter is not & can never be an Ausie, you see he is a Kiwi. He is however a gentleman that has a sense of humour & he does not have a chip on his shoulder or have to lower himself to the point of using expletives to get a point across.
I take offence at your assertion that it was only Americans that died in the Pacific, as thousands of Ausies, Kiwis, Poms, Americans & others died in the many battles in the Pacific as well as the Americans from the battle of the Coral sea.
I have no love for the Japs, however to be blunt. If it weren’t for the thousands of Japs that died in Hiroshema or Nagisaki, then we may have been looking at a vastly different world.
Mr chipcarlborg please bow your head in shame & ask God for forgiveness at your short sighted attitude in offending all the good men from whatever country they were born that died for our my FREEDOM.
FREEDOM TO HAVE A FREE SPEECH
FREEDOM TO HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR
Bob

[nicktheplumberParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by Robert Stephen Morton:
thousands of Ausies, Kiwis, Poms, Americans & others died in the many battles in the Pacific as well as the Americans from the battle of the Coral sea…

Mr chipcarlborg please bow your head in shame & ask God for forgiveness at your short sighted attitude in offending all the good men from whatever country they were born that died for our my FREEDOM.
FREEDOM TO HAVE A FREE SPEECH
FREEDOM TO HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR
Bob

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AMEN. I think most of us Americans know that: 1) Australians and New Zealanders (and to a lesser but still considerable degree, the English) share our love for freedom and democracy and have the balls to defend those values; and 2) Are not just fair-weather friends, but true allies who will stand with each other when the bullets start flying.

So, if you want to criticize plumbing, lets talk about what they have in France and the rest of the Continent…

NtP

[Robert Stephen MortonParticipant]

Nick, Thank you. However we must remember those who faught in all those wars before & have died in the persuit of freedom.
At present it seems that the French have a Government of Democrats or pacifists hell bent on protecting their financial interests, They have always been a proud & bloody annoying Race of people. There have been many French people who have laid down their lives to help the allies to freedom in the second world war as well.
Let us not besmirch the memory of any men or woman that have given their lives before in an attempt to hit out at the present French pacifists.
Remember well that there are those among yourselves & also in Australia that were against the dismissal of Sadamm who is insane.
Bob

[nicktheplumberParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by Robert Stephen Morton:
Nick, Thank you. However we must remember those who faught in all those wars before & have died in the persuit of freedom… There have been many French people who have laid down their lives to help the allies to freedom in the second world war as well.
Let us not besmirch the memory of any men or woman that have given their lives before in an attempt to hit out at the present French pacifists.Bob

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You are correct. And of course there are quite a few English who criticize Tony Blair for sending his troops to Iraq. But I was actually criticizing European plumbing…especially those so-called toilets…the ones that are holes in the floor you squat over to reflieve yourself in… I visited Italy and France some years ago and even stayed at a “pensione” that had such a contraption. It served as a toilet and a walk-in shower…you crapped in it, or you could take a shower in it, using the same drain! Efficient, perhaps, but disgusting to my tastes.

NtP

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