Toilet pan mortar bed

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    • #276974
      charles mifsud

      I need to re-bed one of the toilets at home since the pan has some unwanted rock ‘n’ roll! I would like to hear any tips required to make the job a success. ie: removing the old mortar from the base of the pan and any waterproofing additives needed for the mortar mix.

      Thanks

    • #295147
      nicktheplumber
      Participant

      Unless your toilet is located on a concrete slab, we do not normally speak of a toilet “pan,” (analagous to, say, a shower pan). And even with a toilet-on-slab we do not refer to the base upon which the toilet is set as a “pan,” since that base is not designed as a waterproof underlayment for the toilet. I suspect that your toilet lays on a mortar-based ceramic tile floor. If there is uneveness of the floor you can remove the old toilet and use thinset mortar to level out the floor. I’d recommend tiling over this base to achieve a level surface on which to lay the new toilet, replacing the flange if necessary. Make sure that the wood (if that’s what it is) of the old floor is solid, and if not fix it first.

      NtP

    • #295148
      rolsone
      Participant

      Thanks for your help nicktheplumber

      the toilet itself actually sits on a mortar bed about 3/4 inch thick on top a concrete slab floor (linoleum covered)
      the mortar over time has cracked and caused the toilet to become unstable – so now needs to be replaced.

      I’m assuming that this is a different method of installation to other countries, as the mortar is the only thing securing the toilet in place. – This seems to be the norm here in Australia

    • #295149
      DUNBAR
      Participant

      Use a marble slab……..has a better uniform look to them.

    • #295150
      Robert Stephen Morton
      Participant

      Rolsone. The Metropolitan Water Sewerage & Drainage Board is very stringent in its requirements & you are prohibited from touching this work. Fines are heavy – Call a licensed Plumber.
      Bob

    • #295151
      nicktheplumber
      Participant


      In reply to message posted by rolsone:
      I’m assuming that this is a different method of installation to other countries, as the mortar is the only thing securing the toilet in place. – This seems to be the norm here in Australia


      Well, I don’t know about the Australian codes, so I’d defer to my Australian colleagues such as Morton on your particular problem, but plumbing is plumbing the world over, albeit with different materials sometimes, but the purpose everywhere is to assure that the job is done right. Local building codes have as their primary goal public health and safety. We do lay toilets on concrete slabs and tiled mortar beds here (and it is always required that whatever the finish floor material may be, such as ceramic or resiliant tile, linoleum, etc., it should go UNDER the toilet base rather than be cut to fit around it. Furthermore, the flange has to rest on top of the finish floor, not be recessed or flush with it; the floor must be level, and the toilet must be solidly bolted to the floor. Them be the rules here in the USA and I would presume anywhere else.

      Verbum sapienti suffecit, and if you ain’t one of the sapienti feel free to call on someone who is to do the job.

      NtP

    • #295152
      Robert Stephen Morton
      Participant

      Nick, In parts of Australia the pans are set on a cement mortar bed, while upturned the underside of the pan is filled with cement, and a bed of cement is put on the floor with the pan collar protruding from the floor, the pan is then inverted to the correct orientation & the pan is set on the bed of the cement, it is then wobbled to sit level & straight, suction is wot keeps it down similar to old cement bedded tiles.
      Unless a shrouded pan is used, the pan collar is always accessable.
      we use a straight trapped pan rather than a siphon pan, and there is only the three inch water seal rather than your full pan where your privates can get wet.
      Bob

    • #295153
      rolsone
      Participant

      Thanks to all for helping me clear that one up, I might leave this one to the experts as plumbing isn’t my specialty.

      R.P

    • #295154
      DUNBAR
      Participant

      Wow…….there for a minute I thought the plumbing police were gonna come pounding someone’s door down for settin a toilet.

      Sheeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwww!

    • #295155
      rolsone
      Participant

      hehe ROFL

      good thing I didn’t put too much info in my profile!

    • #295156
      nicktheplumber
      Participant


      In reply to message posted by Robert Stephen Morton:
      Nick, In parts of Australia the pans are set on a cement mortar bed, while upturned the underside of the pan is filled with cement, and a bed of cement is put on the floor with the pan collar protruding from the floor, the pan is then inverted to the correct orientation & the pan is set on the bed of the cement, it is then wobbled to sit level & straight, suction is wot keeps it down similar to old cement bedded tiles.
      Unless a shrouded pan is used, the pan collar is always accessable.
      we use a straight trapped pan rather than a siphon pan, and there is only the three inch water seal rather than your full pan where your privates can get wet.
      Bob


      RSM:

      thanks for the clarification. I understand your logic. makes sense. Plumbing is nothing but common sense, right? Or perhaps I should say informed common sense. That’s where the training comes in, isn’t it?

      NtP

      NtP

    • #295157
      Robert Stephen Morton
      Participant

      Dunbar. The Australian governments take the health of the nation very seriously & consequentially the States have very strict regulations pertaining to the people in the forefront – namely Plumbers, Drainers & Gasfitters.
      In Qld you Must be licensed to work on all plumbing, Drainage & gasfitting except unregulated work such as replacing tap washers or cistern washers.
      To contract, the contractor must hold a contractors license & be a licensed in the work being carried out.
      I personnally have Plumbers, Drainers Gasfitters Backflow, Fire hose reel & Hydrant, Site assesment & Design of on site Sewerage Treatment. As has my both Son’s.
      There are huge fines for both licensed persons & owners for unlicensed work without a permit & proper inspection.
      It may seem like big brother, but judging by the posts the amount of unlicensed DIY Plumbing in America is almost pandemic. We still have unlicensed Plumbing in Australia & plumbers are underpaid. But all in all Australia is a great place to be.
      Bob

    • #295158
      nicktheplumber
      Participant


      We still have unlicensed Plumbing in Australia & plumbers are underpaid. But all in all Australia is a great place to be.
      Bob


      Morton,

      Your comments about the great land down under incite my Yankee Plumber urges to move to greener fields. I’m getting close to the age when plumbers think about retiring, though I can’t imagine myself spending weeks at a time going fishing or roaming the country in a mobile home…I’d like to slow down a bit and enjoy life as a retired plumber (with apologies to the guy who posts here with that handle), but I’ll be damned if I wouldn’t rather keep on plumbing, even if at a more leisurely pace, till the day that I drop. What kind of chances does an old Yankee plumb monkey like me have for retirement in your great continent…I mean, could I retire there and get licensed to dabble in the trade as a retiree?

      NtP

    • #295159
      Robert Stephen Morton
      Participant

      Nick. We are a truly remarkable nation. We will accept any one on our shores that wish to become Ozzies, we get a little disgruntled when people jump the queues to sneak in & we also get disgruntled when migrants wish to live & change Australia to be like their homeland.
      Yes we would accept you however to get a license you would have to apply like the rest of us to the state examining board & they would decide upon your qualifications. If your qualifications were acceptable & you had no convictions you would get a interim license (in Qld) which would entitle you to be employed by a licensed plumber.
      Alternatively you could get a hvac job almost any where, as that trade is not regulated to my knowledge.
      The entry criteria is another thing altogether because Yanks are renouned for their loud mouths, so the Australian Govt has a test for mouth size especially for Yanks.
      Bob

    • #295160
      rolsone
      Participant

      perhaps you could fix my toilet! I’ll give you a good reference for immigration!

    • #295161
      nicktheplumber
      Participant

      Thanks for the response. I’ve got a few years to make retirement plans. We’ve been thinking about the idea of getting a second place in either New Zealand or Australia and spending 1/2 of the year there and 1/2 of the year in the US. I guess we could keep the volume down for 1/2 a year at a time. BTW, wouldn’t it be more accurate for your immigration officials to check sound volume with a noise meter than simply measuring the oral cavity?

      NtP

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