- This topic has 7 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 2 months ago by
SylvanLMP.
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Posts
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Chris Johnstone
I chose that subject in case I ever want to return and find any responses to this posting, assuming it makes it to the board. I get the impression that if this were an electrical board, and someone wrote a problem about a dark room, Sylvan would write a diatribe about *********** who used Romex wires, racefanone would tell Sylvan what a great answer it was, Frank would say that at least the heating system is keeping the room warm, and some of the alter egos would denigrate anyone who tried to give a valid answer to the problem. None of you would ask whether they have tried the switch, checked the bulb, or tested the circuit breaker. I originally chose the name Fourth Year because I knew it would rankle Sylvan since he said only Third Year apprentices were any good. Some of interpreted that to be an indication of my experience rather than a pseudonym. I have been in the business too long and have always done quality work and repairs, to stand by and be called a Tinkerjackleg or handyman, who does repairs that are “good enough”. I have noticed this board has gotten few “good” questions lately and if any do come in later, they will probably also ask them elsewhere where they will get an answer that addresses the problem and not one that talks about roof drains and fire suppression systems. But as Sylvan said to the person who put drain cleaner in the water pipe, “they deserve what they get”. It has been an interesting time and I have enjoyed the repartee, but I see that you “plumbers” want the board to yourselves to answer as you see fit and if an answer does not conform to your conceptions then you attack the messenger. I have noticed that few people come back and say “thank you, your reply worked” here. I wonder if that is because you are out in left field with your advice, or are you creating your own questions so you can come up with a “brilliant” solution. I leave this board in the hands of Sylvan and his sycophants.
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Hopefully someday you just may try to learn something about the trade you have say you have been dabbling in.
The problem is a lot of misfits get into the trades but never bother to actually learn anything about the various aspects or the diversity of materials.
I can justify every one of my anti and pro plastic statements as well as why I find your advice so repulsive it makes the real mechanics sick reading your about your incompetence.
You having taken over a business and never really learning how to either install Or how to set up an organization.
You one had the gall to post that someone charging $125 for a thermocouple was way to high a price, You made this statement without having any facts what so ever.
How do you know it was not an over time call Or how far away from the job did the plumber have to travel.
as it is evident you honestly have no clue how much it cost to properly carry the right amount of insurance Or pay employees a decent salary.
sick.
My insurance is over $40,000 per year, that you moron is $800 per week
My office rent is $1,400 per month
My Mechanics make between $30-$45 per HR IN THE ENVELOPE not including benefits.
The girl in the office makes $1,100 per week
I draw a salary of $2,200 PER WEEK where do you think this money comes from you low life?
Do you think a legitimate plumbing contractor can make a living ONLY charging $125???
How do they pay for the trucks and insurance and office personal and pay a mechanic a decent salary?
How can a legitimate contractor pay for the Merlin system, several phone lines a computer system and keep abreast of current codes for $125 per hr?
There is NO WAY, NO HOW your a licensed contractor Or even a businessman.
Why would a REAL plumber who spent 5 years in an apprenticship (10,000) plus another several years
Working to get to take the Masters exams be willing to work for less then $100,000 -$300,000 per year?
How can you honestly expect to get a semi decent mechanic for less then $30 per hr?
What incentive can you offer someone to come into the trade if the M BOSS feels $125 is too much for a service call and parts?
I would be ashamed to offer someone even a skilled helper less then $20 per hr in todays market place.
This is not how to treat anyone especially an employee you depend to do the right job.
» This message has been edited by SylvanLMP on 09 February 2002
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Copy and paste from front page of this bulletin board “New Announcement…
Please read this before posting or replying to messages on the Bulletin Boards….. Click Here!! “The contents are as follows ……..
“Please read this before posting or replying to messages on the Bulletin Boards…
01 January 2002 – 01 December 2002
Posted by ModeratorAs outlined in our notice on the Bulletin Board Index, our Bulletin Boards are provided to assist those seeking help and information about Plumbing, Drainage, Gasfitting and related issues.
Any posts that are considered offensive/slanderous or are an attack on other users, will be removed. Users engaging in such attacks may also have their posting privilages removed.We have restricted replies to registered users only whilst anyone can create a topic.
This website is here to assist those looking for information and answers about our Plumbing industry. In order for us to succeed we require your cooperation.
Thank you,
Lorenzo”Lorenzo, I Think the next step is self evident.
Bungie
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In reply to message posted by bungie:
Copy and paste from front page of this bulletin board “New Announcement…
Please read this before posting or replying to messages on the Bulletin Boards….. Click Here!! “The contents are as follows ……..
“Please read this before posting or replying to messages on the Bulletin Boards…
01 January 2002 – 01 December 2002
Posted by ModeratorAs outlined in our notice on the Bulletin Board Index, our Bulletin Boards are provided to assist those seeking help and information about Plumbing, Drainage, Gasfitting and related issues.
Any posts that are considered offensive/slanderous or are an attack on other users, will be removed. Users engaging in such attacks may also have their posting privilages removed.We have restricted replies to registered users only whilst anyone can create a topic.
This website is here to assist those looking for information and answers about our Plumbing industry. In order for us to succeed we require your cooperation.
Thank you,
Lorenzo”Lorenzo, I Think the next step is self evident.
Bungie
Bungie, Dont you think that if someone posts a question on this site they should be given the correct answer?
When someone second guesses a price given I think it is very unfair to say the price is too high as when I sdpoke to Gerry I found out your money is exactly 50% less then ours.
Every single contractor has their own bottom line pricing structure not that one is right or one is wrong.
When giving plumbing- gas fitting Or even drainage advice on here I think is imperative to quote from as many codes as possible
I do see a major problem in your “English” to ours especially in postings.
I know this list gives fantastic advice for those seeking “professional” opinions.
The problem is allowing the non knowing to give advice without any clue to a proper job or which materials should be used for certain applications
I have found Gerry and Michael the gasman and Monty and racefanone and Harold to be some of the most outstanding professionals anyone could ever seek out for advice.
It is the non knowing who offer bad advice that is very scary as peoples lifes can be put at risk
I came here to learn which I have from so many folks willing to share good sound advice.
This list is great for an education in so many fields.
I hope other lists will follow suit when it comes to the professionalism that is shown here.
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Personal attacks and defamation, does not show a professional approach, and that’s my
where I’m getting annoyed here.
I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge of the plumbing industry, but the way you
talk down to people when they disagree with you is unbelievable. You have to remember that
your postings here are into the world forum, not the local hardware store in the Bronx.
People DON’T talk down to people they don’t like or think are stupid. If you don’t like a
comment, then discuss it, don’t be condescending or out right rude. All that does it make you
look silly in front of others.Hope you take this in the spirit it is written.
Bob
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In reply to message posted by bungie:
Personal attacks and defamation, does not show a professional approach, and that’s my
where I’m getting annoyed here.
I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge of the plumbing industry, but the way you
talk down to people when they disagree with you is unbelievable. You have to remember that
your postings here are into the world forum, not the local hardware store in the Bronx.
People DON’T talk down to people they don’t like or think are stupid. If you don’t like a
comment, then discuss it, don’t be condescending or out right rude. All that does it make you
look silly in front of others.Hope you take this in the spirit it is written.
Bob
Bob, I have no problem with the gentlemanly way you expressed yourself.
I also never mind being corrected if I am wrong as this is how I learn.What I cannot stand is incompetence in a profession I do take very seriously.
Imagine if you will a place full of really qualified craftsmen who took pride in learning their trade properly and went on to continue learning.
When I see postings border line criminal it irks the hell out of me knowing that there are so many non skilled dabbling in a profession that can kill innocents if not taken seriously.
Did you know over 1,000 people a year die in Alaska alone from carbon monoxide poisoning from faulty hook ups of hot water heaters?
Did you know several children died recently from a cross connection of a potable water system and a sewer line?
What we need is better policing of our industry with jail time given to these murders who install faulty systems.
We need accountability real accountability not a slap on the hand type.
How about those 4 men who raped an Australian and were given only 4 years jail time SUPPOSE it was the mother daughter or wife or sister of the judge do you think your Australian Government would impose such a light sentence?
It appears more and more folks are getting away literally with murder as the liberals seem to look the other way.
How many folks have to succumb to poor plumbing installations before we are allowed to say get the *********** out of the trades?
I detest incompetence and always have.
I will not tolerate shoddy work to be performed by my employees or on any job I am affiliated with.
We can make a difference by rooting out the morons from dabbling in a great profession.
Lets try to raise the standards again.
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Sylvan. I agree with Bungie, Personal attacks in a vitriolic way are self degrading.
I know that plumbing, carried out in USA is different to that of Australia, but that dosn’t make American Plumbing wrong! This post is set up so that all can learn, one shouldnt be afraid to post, fearing a personal attack.
I as well as you are feircly proud to be a fully Licensed Plumber, Drainer, Gasfitter. I have mentioned to you previously the merrits of a fully regulated industry, where unlicensed persons cannot interfere with any Plumbing.
I cannot believe that American citizens are able or allowed to interfere with a community water or sewer system as a right. What about the other citizens right to have a safe water & waste system. Sylvan until you and your Master Plumbers are able to lobby to get a Regulated system you will continue to get 1000 deaths from incorrect gas hookups & cross connections between water & sewer.
The water in Bowen is slightly acidic, it is high pressure, it has high TDS, Electrical earthing is questionable & undersizing could also be an issue, however copper does not last more than 12 months. Given the local conditions we are forced to use a alterrnate product ie Polybutylene, it may not last as long as copper in your area but it is the best we can do for our customers.
Regards Bob -
Hello Robert,
once again I will reiterate my views on MATERIALS
As much as I love copper and use copper almost exclusively for domestic water supply, I know as a Professional Master Plumber no one product is the best.
For example, since thermoplastics are non-conductors, they are immune to the electrolytic or galvanic corrosion that attacks and often destroys metal piping materials, particularly when installed underground.Copper conveying hot water at 180 degrees F is prone to failure if the velocity is allowed to be in excess of 2-3 FPS (feet per second).PVDF can handle high temperatures up to 280 Deg. F (137 Deg. C) and CPVC and PP can handle temperatures up to 210 Deg F (98 Deg. C)
I would never put copper against the plastic piping in an acid system or even water with lots of minerals, like well water.
Copper is subject to erosion from lack of proper installation (no reaming) or poor design (excessive velocity).
Copper can allow hydraulic shock to be even more intense than its steel or brass piping counterpart.
Copper in marine use just doesn’t hold up as well as other piping materials.
I would never think of using copper for my main sewer piping as Cast Iron has longevity and the mass to have a very quiet system and plastic waste is one of the noisiest systems imaginable.
Copper type DWV is paper thin and subject to attack from chemical action of domestic drain cleaners.
To say one type of material is better than another is absurd just like saying a jet is the best plane out there BUT I certainly would not want to do crop dusting with an F14.
Manufacturers are always pushing their products as the best, BUT as Master Plumbers and Gas fitters and Drainers we must make the final decision what is the proper material and equipment for each job application and what is allowed by codes and not just price.
Copper is a great material if used properly and you know its limitations.I only use plastic under duress BUT if the system requirements needed plastic for an acid waste or water conditions warranted it, I would use the proper type of plastic as required by job requirements.Black steel is great for steam applications as the coefficient of expansion is not as great as copper and you wont get the loss of BTUs from the piping.
Black steel is also stronger and resists the possibility of having the pipe wall penetrated by a nail, like a copper gas line can, can really be dangerous.
On a steam pipe you have the real possibility of having severe burns using copper opposed to black steel if you brush against this piping.
Steel can be threaded, welded and use mechanical clamps to hold much higher pressures.Some members of the population are actually allergic to copper and any water passing through this piping must be filtered.Thankfully we Licensed plumbers do keep abreast of current code changes and new materials and designs coming into play, especially in the heating industry with much lower hydronic temperatures and plastic being used underground in long joint free grids.The problem as I see it is many material manufacturers always tell how great their products are but never the short comings!
What I do get upset about is the non knowing dabbling in piping trades with NO FORMAL education or these mutts lacking any kind of REAL code knowledge.
SylvanLMP
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