- This topic has 8 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 3 months ago by
SylvanLMP.
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MasterPlumbers
what is the proper sizing for connecting more than one relife line?
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Which Code are you referring to as “Proper”Are you SURE your asking about the correct Valve?Relief or Safety? CHECK your spelling
Is this Steam or hot water application? (HINT)I think you should look up ASME section IV (HINT AGAIN) Relieving devices and READ what these fine folks have to say as the stumblebums on here with no names will only get you really confused as books are for KIDS LOL.
Make sure you see the clover leaf as that is something the Billy Butts would never look for.
FYI if you have to ask I strongly suggest you have a professional do the sizing and the proper installation.
Most of the unemployables or non skilled go into “heating” as they know no one will ever ask what “qualifications” they have.Such as ASHRE, ASME,NBBI,U/A training, Mechanical Engineering,LMP,Heating or plumbing “ENGINEER”
Stationery Engineers license etc.So I would advise you rather then ask a general question have a LMP go to the job site or ask your local city inspector to explain how to size these devices and how many you can install and ask about how the professional knows the difference of a safety or a relief valve and how to test and pipe them in properly by NBBI and or ASME and local codes.
Too bad you never gave an E mail address so I could have given you the exact page of the ASME quotes BUT since you didn’t it would be erroneous of me to guess how many BTU input your asking about << ANOTHER HINT Discharge piping sized by not only BTU and (now look it up LEARN)
Here is one more HINT as If I tell you the answer you wont appreciate WHY A LMP is slightly a cut above the wannna be non knowing folks.Once YOU look it up yourself it is an education and thus you too will remember how many and WHY
Just like I try to educate a 1st year helpers ILL try to make it as simple for you knowing the majority of “Americans” reading this list have no formal education in heatin stuff as they are to lazy to bother to look these easy to find facts on their own so they take someone’s word for it and hope the answer is correct.
Here lets think like a person with a 4th grade education.Suppose we took the BTU (input) NOT OUT PUT of the boiler in question and then called a home center and asked to speak to the professionals there YES HOME CENTERS NOW have really great heating folks working for them as THEY can answer YOUR question. The stock clerk KNOWS just as much about HOW many valves and piping relieving capacities that can be installed as you seem to know.
The stock person at the home center would look up the maximum relieving capacity of the valve and then by asking you to look at the boiler plate the stock person would them know the maximum rating of this boiler and thus know if one or 2 (HINT)
Valves are required The folks dabbling in the trades never bother to even think outside the box.THUS the BIG BOX Stores are the way to go.
Thankfully consumers now have a viable option for heating.
Sears and Home Depot are offering excellent services by LICENSED PROFESSIONALS and thus I suggest you contact them for all your heating needs because they do have up to date training and BOOKS on hand to look up your questions and give you a quality job.
Why bother to ask a question on here like how many valves can be legally installed? Or pipe sizing?
If you do not know this answer YOU should not dabble in heating like the BBC are doingGO to as home Center and they can help you.
SylvanLMP Certified low pressure boiler Inspector
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My opinion Only take it for what you think
Again for your safety PLEASE give it up and go to a home center before you end up hurting someone including yourself guy.
Not everyone is honestly cut out for the “trades”
NOT A put down its a fact of life.
Like Steven Speilberg told me once while we were eating Chinese food.
“Everyone has a talent the key is to find it”I strongly suggest YOU find yours or try to at least get an education in the proper installations not ask someone unknown as you have no clue if they are correct or not.
This is just basic laziness on your part not looking in the code books or the very least you could have shown some common sense and asked
“Where can I find the answer to the above question”
Being a professional in ANYTHING is not to remember all the codes but to at least know where to look.
I am not putting you down as your brighter then some of the morons on here as at least you asked.
NOW I told you ASME so now you have the tools to find it yourself and your on the road to LEARNING a little something about WHY we have Masters who’s job is it to train future generations of skilled craftsmen and women.
This forum is a great place to learn but part of the learning process is to THINK and if I or anyone just fired off an answer this is not going to help you at all.
For example in the “books” you will not only see how But the properly piping arrangements and WHY these valves and piping are installed the way they are.
Today knowing that a lot of folks cannot read and understand what they are reading (case in point folks in the trades asking basic code questions)
The code authorities geared the reading level to tradesmen around 3rd grade level with lots of pictures (illustrated codes)
It is not a put down it is FACT even the President of this country knew we could no longer compete using “American know how” as we have become a lazy society asking how many rather then bothering to even look up simple answers.
I try to not only give an accurate answer but to enlighten folks how important reading codes is to become a “professional”
As more and more employers realize this is a lost cause and look to open more factories over seas and the home centers and utilities finally do take over these trades we then will have a much better society of SKILLED craftsmen again.
Skilled in the knowledge they can read for themselves and learn to look how and know WHY there is a valid reason.
Every trade (here) has taken a severe hit when it comes to getting really skilled labor.
Now that Ireland has a construction boom America has again lost really qualified work force as these highly intelligent craftsmen who went back to their home land,
we are now faced with the dregs again, the normally unemployables are now back in the main stream filling the void the craftsmen left.It takes 3 men to replace one of the really qualified workers that left.
No more pride in one knowing their trade instead we have the tell me the answer mentality as they cannot read or understand what they read.
The worlds envy of the work force is no longer on these shores.
What a shame to see the ruin of a once great nation.
Look at all the jobs lost over the last 30 years look at the Stumblebums out in the field.
Look how codes have become lax to allow the unemployables to install idiot proof piping systems.
Imagine a so called professional asking a general code question that can be found locally.
Yet when a technical answer is given folks who do not know the reason ridicule rather then saying “wow I just may have learned something
“Education today is knocked we have the fast food mentality in plumbing and heating get in get out forget pride that is for losers and nerds.
Once just having the skills to install piping systems was not enough it was also required to know why.
Today we have folks who don’t even know how and have to rely on pictures and simpleton materials to install.
Boilers come “Packaged” why? because the stumblebums have no clue unless it is already pre wired and set up so only 3 connections are required not including wiring
Have fun guys picking this apart, SylvanLMP
Wow what a great place to learn there ARE BOOKS out there HUH? 
SylvanLMP -
I will try again, hope this post works
Sylvan, you are right on the mark.
It is a disgrace what is posted on here by “Stumblebums” who dable in our profession.
This is exactly why I I sold off my business to get away from the idiots out there sponging off me and expecting me to take care of them when they have no inclinkling how let alone why.
You hit sore spots with “stumblebums” as rather then even try to learn they do knock our education and pride.
I never read this site before but my son who is an engineer did send me a lint to this particular posting and we concur with you.
AO Smith Mexico, Kohler Mexico, great heating mechanics and equipment Germany.
We have the plastic mind set generation nothing about pride in ones self.
Yes these bums asking this kind of moranic question is the entitlemet generation with give me the answers.
Sir it is indeed an honor to know there are still some left who like to know their respective trades.
Have a great -
Which “big box” stores do you go to that have “experts” in plumbing much less heating? The intelligent ones are out in the field making money. The ones who could not do that are working at Home Depot, etc., or became city inspectors. Unless a relief drain pipe is sized to accept all the valves discharging at the same time, they should go to the drain individually, which is what some codes require anyway.
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Fourth year: I half way agree with your statements.But there are some retired trades people who are working at places the likes of Home Depot,etc, to earn a little extra money.Some have a great deal of experience.Have a good one.
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In reply to message posted by racefanone:
Fourth year: I half way agree with your statements.But there are some retired trades people who are working at places the likes of Home Depot,etc, to earn a little extra money.Some have a great deal of experience.Have a good one.
Hi Racefanone,
One of my early mentors was the superintendent of a very large plumbing shop when I was a 2nd year apprentice.
By the time I was in my 3rd year of apprenticeship (out of 5) I was already being paid journeymen wages.
I left that shop to work with another shop so I could try another aspect of plumbing like hospital work and institutional as I already had performed industrial and lots of commercial installations BORING high rises.
About 10 years ago I was in a home depot and saw my old line boss and felt bad for him as I tried to hide before he could see me to avoid him from being embarrassed.
Bernie said Hey Kid come here whatcha doing guy?
I told him I had my own companies (two) and several licenses and offered him a job right then and there as my top Superintendent to actually run the day to day operations.
He gave me a hug and said thanks kid but IM old and have bad knees and high blood pressure and only like to dabble in plummin as I get bored traveling or staying home watching TV.
Bernie was the guy I went to learn my trades.
On lunch hour he would show the apprentices how to read plans and take fittings off them.
He taught me how to braze medical gas lines and constantly asked me code questions every time he happened to walk past where I was working.
Over the past 20+ years we lost touch until I met him in the store giving advice.
Mechanically he was not that great BUT codes and actually running the jobs he was the best.
His advice to the home owners was much more “professional” then the majority of the weirdo’s postings on here.
No one in their right mind would tell a home owner to go up on a roof to listen if the vent was working BUT I read it here on this list.DUH
Is the roof pitched? Is the person asking the question in a wheel chair? Sight unseen this was the responce AMAZING HUH
At least Bernie not only knows the codes he has common sense.
You never know where you may find talent or why someone decides not to want to work 35 hour week.
For example I do not work more then 15 hour a week and have not worked more then 20 hours per week since the age of 40 when I semi retired.
This does not mean I still do not keep abreast of my local codes and try to learn more about these trades.
Plumbing to me is fun as I do not need the money coming in every month like the mutts dabbling in business.
So if nothing comes in 4, 5, 6, months who cares?
That is called independent and self reliant (GREAT FEELING).
Knowing I am good in my trades affords me a great living and you get out is what you put in
Me being basically lazy I never really learned as much as I wanted to about plumbing/heating/drain cleaning as I have so much more to learn.
Who knows I may for the fun of it go to a home center like Home Depot or other home center and offer my services in how to snake out lines and install a hot water heater Or pipe in a boiler properly.
Wouldn’t the franchise guys love seeing the home owner renting a snake from a home center already shown at the home center how to use it safely?
How about me making a video to rent showing several ways to pipe in a heating system?
Hey its legal no license needed for HEATIN STUFF
Why cant a guy working at a home center explain how calling in a drain guy is really not necessary after all I can explain how to use a ram jet or hand held snake and show them all kinds of great tricks of the trades on Saturdays for FREE as I like giving back to a profession that made me wealthy.
What is so hard connecting a package boiler?
Look at the dummies non licensed doing it now so why cant the average home owner do it and possibly do it even better.
After all they own a home so they have to have some knowledge to afford it plus look at all those poor folks who really got screwed in the slab heating jobs they got suckered into by heating guys who of course tried to blame the manufacturers and the poor home owner caught in the middle.
HEY they could have done that to themselves huh? WHY pay someone to do that to you?Today with PVC and pictures books on how to and videos and say 4 hours of a persons time WHY CANT the average guy or gal learn to install plastic piping?
For a joke I once taught my 4 year old daughter to solder 3/4 copper tubing and GUESS what not one leak using 95-5.
That was to prove a point to a helper that ANYONE can be taught to solder today.
Anyone can be taught to use glue and primer.The only thing that will take time is showing folks how to follow codes and even the dummies today have no clue to open a book to know WHY.
With no hub couplings and PVC and compression joints plumbing is very easy for residential piping so the home centers are a natural place to teach these folks to compete against 12 week franchise wonders.
I would love to give FREE Classes to home owners at a home center with the stipulation as follows.
Deposit is $500 BUT if you finish the 3 month plumbing course you get your money refunded plus you get to keep the local code book.
Imagine what a person can learn in 6 hours a day for 24 days.
They can learn to install a faucet and a complete bathroom PROPERLY
They can learn heat loss or the very least how to install a hot water heater safely with all the goodies like return circulation and how to change a simple thermo couple.
So I think most home owners would be BETTER served going to a home center and asking to talk to someone in plumbing/heating rather then risking their lives to either a 12 week franchise wonder Or a non licensed degenerate dabbling in the field.
Without formal training or a Masters license these dabblers are NOT plumbers by any stretch of the imagination.
I think that as more folks start seeing what is really out there tinkering in their homes and offices the utilities will have to start doing more in home service.
If a home owner wants qualified folks they will have to pay professional prices other wise let them do it themselves SAFELY.
All the home owners have to do is ASK TO SEE THE MASTERS LICENSE of the person doing the actual job.
Hey you go into a Taxi cab there is the guys hack license why should plummmin be different? As we have plenty of hacks out there also.
Have fun and I do agree with lots of professionals working in home centers rather then deal with the garbage out in the field today. Hey its only my opinion
SylvanLMP -
Well stated Sylvan.No one knows what hand life will deal us.Where I reside there are alot of semi-retired and retired trades people working in a large hardware store.In fact the owner of the store contacts these people to work part time for him because he knows them and he knows they know what they are doing.Have a good year Sylvan.
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In reply to message posted by racefanone:
Well stated Sylvan.No one knows what hand life will deal us.Where I reside there are alot of semi-retired and retired trades people working in a large hardware store.In fact the owner of the store contacts these people to work part time for him because he knows them and he knows they know what they are doing.Have a good year Sylvan.
Thank you you also have a healthy and happy New Year.
You know if you think about it US being in the trades I would find it almost impossible to just stop working.
One of my part timers is over 80 years old.
Social security just does not hit it and being a craftman he needs to do something.
Everyone needs something to do and if we can make money doing something we really enjoy hey thats a very big plus in our favor.
I sometimes cannot get over I am geting paid for having so much fun.
I guess because I do enjoy learning and working with my hands I am pretty decent as a mechanic.
You have to like what your doing or it just becomes a job and thats a shame to work at any feild you do not love doing.
Have a great one.
SylvanLMP
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