concrete in drain

[Athanas Kasembe]

help……….. the cement finishers knocked off the kollar cap and let concrete get down into the 3″ drain. it is loose but will not get past a long sweep 90 down stream , or back up any futher than a wye , upstream.it is about 40 feet to the cleanout downstream and 8 feet from the closet bend up stream. do not really want to break out the floor as there are radiant heat coils in place.. the concrete people bought 5 gallons of chemical to disolve the blockage,but cannot seal off the line close enough to the problem. any suggestions would be helpful,thanks jerry

[TheLocalPlumberParticipant]

jerry, This is a no brainer. It sounds as if the concrete contractor has assumed responsibility by trying to take care of the problem. This is a go0od example of why you want to make sure that only licensed contractors work in your home.
There is a state license bond that must be carried by all licensed contractors. In California, plumbing contractors bond is $7500.00. Contact your state license board to find out the correct way for you to file a complaint. If the contractors insurance does not take care of it you would have a claim against the bond.Do it quickly for time could be an issue.
Good Luck,
Bill
The Local Plumber
Tustin, California http://www.TheLocalPlumber.com

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by oman:
help……….. the cement finishers knocked off the kollar cap and let concrete get down into the 3″ drain. it is loose but will not get past a long sweep 90 down stream , or back up any futher than a wye , upstream.it is about 40 feet to the cleanout downstream and 8 feet from the closet bend up stream. do not really want to break out the floor as there are radiant heat coils in place.. the concrete people bought 5 gallons of chemical to disolve the blockage,but cannot seal off the line close enough to the problem. any suggestions would be helpful,thanks jerry

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Not a problem as this kind of fiasco happens all the time.

What I do when a contractor screws up and lets hot bitumen Or gravel Or cement down the lines is not to panic.

In this case it is ONLY cement one of the easiest things to remove.

1- You can call a plumber with a snake and have him/her use CHAIN knockers to loosen up the cement encased on the inside of the pipe.

2- Then have a large vacuum suck out the cement

3- Have the same plumber/drain cleaner use a water Jetter with at least 10-14 GPM to flush the debris to the next clean out or building house trap.

The water Jetter pressure is not really the key here as the chain knockers will loosen the cement and no need to scour the lines clean BUT you do need the volume of water to flush the stones and gravel down stream

Now for the bad news under normal conditions We charge no less then $500 per HR for this type of work with the video inspection extra to double check the job.

The good thing is this kind of work takes about 2-3 hours and saves you the aggravation of cutting the slab and doing even more damage.

Like I stated above this is very common as a matter of fact I am going to a job Monday doing this exact same thing BUT in this case because of the size of the piping 10″ we are looking at a minimum of $15,000 even if it does take two hours.

Be thankful that there are always options if you hire a professional to go behind the other guys.

Remember your are paying for the knowledge not to destroy the slab as anyone can cut out the existing and do damage.

Now one more point if you were foolish enough to allow plastic piping to be installed under ground you have a problem as the knockers can crack the cheap plastic piping and the short radius of plastic crap makes rodding more difficult so you will be paying a hell of a lot more as care must be taken not to crack this garbage installation

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SylvanLMP

[racefanoneParticipant]

Oman there is nothing wrong with plastic piping.It is just like everything else,if put in correctly,it will last along time.Look at all the plastic products on the market today.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by racefanone:
Oman there is nothing wrong with plastic piping.It is just like everything else,if put in correctly,it will last along time.Look at all the plastic products on the market today.

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Exactly BUT if someone was to read what the manufacturer of both materials have to say Most “professionals” would choose the better ,safer materials

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SylvanLMP

[omanParticipant]

thanks everyone for the input. there is indeed pvc below grade, do not know of any plumber that has chain knockers, any ideas on the chemical aspect? thanks again,oman

[GuestParticipant]

Mr. Sylvan, LMP:
Which brand of chain knockers do you use? I would be interesteed in locating a unit that will “drill” through concrete since the ones I have always used are descalers and need an opening through the material before they can break up the obstruction. I assume that the unplugging of the 10″ line was successful, or you gave a performance guaranty that you only charged if you unplugged the line.

[racefanoneParticipant]

I also would like to know whay type you use

[racefanoneParticipant]

I also would like to know what type you use

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by sewer pro:
Mr. Sylvan, LMP:
Which brand of chain knockers do you use? I would be interesteed in locating a unit that will “drill” through concrete since the ones I have always used are descalers and need an opening through the material before they can break up the obstruction. I assume that the unplugging of the 10″ line was successful, or you gave a performance guaranty that you only charged if you unplugged the line.

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Well, Sewer Pro YOU are a professional as you asked a Question and that sir is a step in the right direction as none of us know it all.

OK the brand I use most of the time is General wire and spring BUT I do use Electric eel also.

You must realize Mr. “Pro” cement will not adhere very well to piping without some type of primmer. Think about roof penitrations that leak as concrete is NOT water proof around piping

Yes, it will stick to the surface but not with a lot of strength.

The chain knockers sets up vibrations that will “chip” the concrete off the inner piping walls.

Then any residue can be removed by a water Jetting with enough pressure and volume to float the debris away. Sort of like power washing BUT it can take a longer and TIME is money T&M RULES in this case.

Actually “Sewer PRO” Now you can fully understand why I honestly think all drain cleaners should attend a “plumbing” apprenticeship for 2 years just to learn the very basics like proper venting and where and how to install clean outs and which tools one should use.

Your lucky IM here to give advice as I do instruct so called plumbers in the proper way to do drain cleaning as most stumblebums go out and try to learn strictly on the job training, which we both know just doesn’t work look at racefanone
Asking the same question THIS SHOWS the need for MORE TRAINING.

Now Pro lets think like semi skilled folks OK? instead of real plumbers and drain cleaners.

If the drain is filled with poured with cement then of course the piping had to be removed and replaced BUT lets talk common sense.

Lets visualize a roof drain Or a floor drain application where the drains are installed and another layer of cement is laid and during this pour some cement enters the line, which happens a lot in setting up a quarry tile roof as the drain is set in the original pour NOT the finished pour. (See real plumbers know this stuff and drain guys have no clue to installations)

Now we have a call back drain plugged with cement.

We certainly do not want to chop open a slab if possible so we use what is called a “starting head” sort of like a spear head to bore a small opening.

If this works then we continue increasing the snake head until we break through the cement deposits NORMALLY the 3,4,5,6,8 “lines are NOT filled completely but just a thin layer as the cement does flow with the pitch of the line (DUH)

Now once the opening is large enough we use chain knockers to set up vibrations to knock off the build up inside the piping walls.

Sometimes when more toque is needed an Electric Ell type of sectional machine is ideal with the 11/4 wire set with the torque set not to put undue stress on the cables.

You see “drain Pro” plumbing is a lot more then just installing the piping properly but being able to service them.

Most United States Drain Cleaners have no real skills and thus they become drain cleaners as there is no testing or licensing in many areas of this country just like “heating and piping contractors”

Now for some inside trade stuff.

When I did a job in Manhattan there as a 8″ drain that was under 4 feet of cement (48″ pour slab) that someone had foolishly let cement go down.

The bids to chop up and replace this pipe was well above $185,000.

So being a Multi talented guy I went out and rented a sand blaster unit and knowing the sand would not destroy the Extra Heavy Cast Iron uncoated pipe and I was able to sand blast the internal piping good as new.

Along with snaking and jetting YES PRO sometimes we do need a combination of tricks to get the finished product we desire.

Then of course we take a video inspection and IF NEEDED we reline the sewer piping if needed.

This is what makes us professionals say “CAN DO” not give excuses why it cant be done

You see “PRO” this requires skills to figure out simple stuff like this.

This is why stumble bums dabbling in these professions have now became “trades.”

Hey if you get a hard job beyond your capabilities PLEASE just ask and IM sure I can give you some sound advice.

Again to get the best out of “drain cleaning” hire a licensed Master plumber/Or licensed Drain cleaner as no one knows more about these systems then the folks who install them.

By the way “PRO” I do not guarantee that the pipe will be cleaned as I have no clue how much debris actually was let down the system so I charge T&M

Hey if you get cancer of the brain does the “Doctor” guarantee your going to be cured?

You want guarantee in life for something beyond our control THEN your had better find another planet to live on guy

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SylvanLMP

[GuestParticipant]

The reason for my question is that the original request implied that the “block of concrete” was completely blocking the pipe, but was loose enough that it was not watertight. In that case, the concrete would have to be bored out and the chain knocker vibrations would only work after it was destroyed. But since it had not adhered to the pipe, there might not be any residue that needed descaling. I am not as incompetent as you seem to think. Nor do I need anyone to hold my hand while I am performing my services, either as a “sewer pro”, or as a licensed plumbing contractor, (LMP, to you).

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by sewer pro:
The reason for my question is that the original request implied that the “block of concrete” was completely blocking the pipe, but was loose enough that it was not watertight. In that case, the concrete would have to be bored out and the chain knocker vibrations would only work after it was destroyed. But since it had not adhered to the pipe, there might not be any residue that needed descaling. I am not as incompetent as you seem to think. Nor do I need anyone to hold my hand while I am performing my services, either as a “sewer pro”, or as a licensed plumbing contractor, (LMP, to you).

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Im glad your an LMP but most localities do give a LMP a number which you failed to list with your name BUT I Guess ILL contact every state and ask if “sewer pro” is licensed as why would anyone lie about being licensed when they are not?

About the question “implied” is another reason I took it for granted you had no clue that what your talking about if you had read the question the gentleman did state the “cement finishers” knocked off the cap.

Now in most civilized parts of the world the finish coat is like thin set just enough to make the FF smooth and level or pitched if the area requires it.

So we are not talking a full 4″ pour going down the line.

The gentleman also stated the “Cement” is loose but will not pass the sweep.

So if you had taken a legitimate “Master plumbers exam” you would have learned to read and not ASSUME as to what YOU think happened.

Plumbing is a science but in order to KNOW Plummmmmm you have to read and UNDERSTAND what your reading.

Now Mr. LMP what “formal” training have you taken in drain cleaning?

Remember most plumbers including Masters have no clue to proper drain cleaning options.

This is why most franchise drain cleaners can work in areas where LMP work as the LMP has no clue as they learn by OJT.

There is a lot more to drain cleaning then just using snakes, water jetters and ram jets and vacuums.

Dont feel bad “drain PRO” there are lots of folks who do not bother to get as formal education in these trades and make a damn good living.

Im still learning every day and I can honestly say I still have not even scratched the surface in learning these trades

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SylvanLMP

[bungieParticipant]

“So if you had taken a legitimate “Master plumbers exam” you would have learned to read and not ASSUME as to what YOU think happened.”

Sylvan, knowing your track record of going off the rails and miss reading the post’s, the above is not fair.

(Has the dust settled around your end of town?? )

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DISCLAIMER

All advice is given with-out seeing the job, and hence all advice MUST be taken as advice with limited knowledge on the exact situation. NO responsibility can or will be taken. And yes, I am a licensed Plumber and Drainer with my own business in Brisbane Australia

[racefanoneParticipant]

Amen to you ,Bungie.Hang in there Sewer Pro.Sylvan gets off by attacking people.His way is the only way.He can assume ,but it’s ok,cause he is the GREAT ONE. Your turn, Sylvan

[GuestParticipant]

Mr.Sylvan,you got that right when you stated that you got alot to learn.You could start by taking a course in Human Kindness.According to you ,you are the only plumber who knows anything,this is followed by stating how much you make off of a job,no one really cares.If people unknowly pay that much I guess that is their problem.Good day sir.I will pray for you

[Author]

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