Joint Repair

[MasterPlumbersKeymaster]

There is a very tiny leak in my water supply pipe before the meter, the supply pipe from the street to the house is lead and I believe the connection from lead pipe to brass is called a “wipe” joint. That is where the leak is in the joint. How can I repair this? Do I shut off the water at the street and clean the joint and apply more solder? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[fourth yearParticipant]

If it is before the meter it is the responsibility of the water company. If you try to fix it yourself, you will make it worse and then you will have to still call the water company and they will not be particularly happy with you at that point.

[GuestParticipant]

AGAIN 4th year has no clue o plumbing or codes.

Various cities state it is YOUR responsibility for the water main up and including the tap connection

The same with the sewer piping and connections.
Unlike the helpers lack of gray cells you should contact your local water authority and not listen to semi skilled advice givers.

[kenny bParticipant]

check with your local water authority first. If it is your responsibilty many will not allow you to repair a older lead service, it must be upgraded at that time. If it is allowed you may be able to utilize a Ford fitting for repair.

[fourth yearParticipant]

S:
welcome back. I have missed your acerbic wit. I hope you are not therefore suggesting that the homeowner actually try to repair a wiped joint himself. Most enlightened utilities maintain the pipe up to the meter, since that water is not billed to the customer. For that reason there would be no reason for the homeowner to pay to have the leak fixed if he was not being charged for the wasted water. Please advise as to any utility that requires the homeowner to maintain his own water service so I can verify your facts. Now, the sewer is different. There many if not most utilities give the burden of maintaining it to the homeowner all the way to the main. Again because in this case the homeowner could not function without an active sewer, so it is in his best interests to pay for the repair. And what makes you think I am a helper? My company has my name on the trucks, and I pay the bills.

[GuestParticipant]

Quote:

Originally posted by fourth year:
S:
welcome back. I have missed your acerbic wit. I hope you are not therefore suggesting that the homeowner actually try to repair a wiped joint himself.<ANSWER..

NOT AT ALL BUT saying the water department is responsible is ludicrous.

In NY for example some localities do take full responsibility for the water meter and water supply piping from the city main.

NYC and the Local gas supplier DO NOT. For example if the building owner has a leaking water main they get a three day notice to get it repaired by a LMP or face a shut down of service. until a LMP pulls a permit for repair or replacement

If the gas piping BEFORE the meter leaks that ALSO is the building owners responsibility EVEN the meter bar piping is furnished and installed by the LMP.

Now you as a 4th year wanna be can fully appreciate why it is required for a Journeyman plumber to have documented proof of his working qualifications before he is allowed to take the NYC Exams. A person has to have a full 10 years in the trade before being allowed to take either the 5 hour written or 41/2 hour practical.

So before you give advice I would strongly suggest that instead of guessing you try to find out the local code as to who has responsibility.

In one area I held a license I was not even allowed to shut off the main valve in the street, because the city owned the main piping and valves up to and including the meter.

NYC Master plumbers are responsible for the installation of the water meters.

We also make the tapping to the city water mains and sewers.
In some areas the powers that be KNOW the so called “plumbers” are really not qualified and thus BIG BROTHER Government has to do the work rather then allowing a helper or a wanna be plumber damage the city property.

Not all Master plumbing licenses require the same back ground in knowledge and or training as seen by the postings on here.

The best part is everyday I am still learning as plumbing is a never ending learning experience especially hearing how country plumbers dabble in heating and drainage

SNIP BELOW
Most enlightened utilities maintain the pipe up to the meter, since that water is not billed to the customer. For that reason there would be no reason for the homeowner to pay to have the leak fixed if he was not being charged for the wasted water. Please advise as to any utility that requires the homeowner to maintain his own water service so I can verify your facts.<< SNIP

Answer>>>
CALL NYC Department of environmental control AND call Con Edison (Utility)is responsible for the gas piping BEFORE and AFTER the Meter GO ahead helper call them THEY are in the phone book

As a 4th YEAR and not really knowledgeable in plumbing OR Business it appears.

You would have read the numerous articles about UNFAIR utility competition.

You would also know as a master plumber we rightfully so accept all responsibility for proper piping applications WHY should the “city” do our work?

Helpers like your mind set would love the government to do all the work in the home after all isn’t the water in the piping city owned?

Hey how about the local gas companies do all the gas appliance installations as YOU sure don’t know what is a real plumbers job or.

I would strongly suggest that you may consider joining a professional organization like the NFPA or NBBI or ASSE or ASME or even the NAPHCC and take some classes regarding plumbing and code applications.

Do not expect governments to do the proper job in regard to plumbing.

That is why GOD CREATED PLUMBERS to protect the health of the world.

It would be very nice gesture if you tried to learn a little something about this profession that you treat like a trade

SNIP below
Now, the sewer is different. There many if not most utilities give the burden of maintaining it to the homeowner all the way to the main. Again because in this case the homeowner could not function without an active sewer, so it is in his best interests to pay for the repair. And what makes you think I am a helper? My company has my name on the trucks, and I pay the bills.<LOTS of stumblebums pass simpleton plumbing tests as some tests only require a small fee to get licensed and just need a where the name goes.

Have a nice day and try to THINK like a mechanic

[GuestParticipant]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenny b:
check with your local water authority first. If it is your responsibilty many will not allow you to repair a older lead service, it must be upgraded at that time. If it is allowed you may be able to utilize a Ford fitting for repair.

---

Kenny your right on as the federal law regarding the safe water drinking act does not permit repairing lead water main piping .

Many of the states now are hustling to get all the lead piping out of the systems so as not to lose federal funding for water treatment ( SWDA of 1974)

The use of a FORD fitting like a dresser is not permitted before the meter as some unscrupulous souls will install a tee and thus by pass the meter.

Do you deal with RAF tool supply up there in Gods country?

That is where I buy my Milwaukee tools from.

HAVE a great one.

[GuestParticipant]

Well,we have this same problem today.
My husband,welder, is using a ford
fitting. (or else have to dig and replace whole line.)
As for who is responsible? We here in Ontario Canada, the owner of the home is responsible for the cost of the meter, the pipe leading to the meter from the city supply and ANY
repairs etc. Although the in line/sewers are on city property. Not to
mention our city pays the highest
property tax rate in Ontario….
Can we say Rip Off?
All I know is we are NOT uprooting
my sand cherry tree!!!!
Marcia.

[GuestParticipant]

quote:

---

Originally posted by marcia:
Well,we have this same problem today.
My husband,welder, is using a ford
fitting. (or else have to dig and replace whole line.)
As for who is responsible? We here in Ontario Canada, the owner of the home is responsible for the cost of the meter, the pipe leading to the meter from the city supply and ANY
repairs etc. Although the in line/sewers are on city property. Not to
mention our city pays the highest
property tax rate in Ontario….
Can we say Rip Off?
All I know is we are NOT uprooting
my sand cherry tree!!!!
Marcia.

---

Thank you Marcia I guess this is ANOTHER LOCALITY that the 4th YEAR has no clue to what he is spewing about when it comes to responsibility of supply systems.

As you can tell this country (USA) is really hurting when it comes to really knowledgeable contractors.

seems when a person doesnt know codes they make things up as they go along as 4th year is known for.

Rther then sit back and learn from true professionals some folks shoot off their mouths.
I am glad you gave your area so 4t year can Question your water dept and he can find out for himself that he is not the expert on advice as he thinks he is.

[fourth yearParticipant]

Interesting. And I have written to the NYC utility commission to verify what you wrote. In this area there is a minimum $10,000.00 fine for anyone working on water, gas, or electric lines prior to the meter. This is a state law, not a local one. The fine can also applies if you break the line, but the utility has to do the repair and they never do it cheaply. The gas and water companies also do not encourage users turning off the water to the house at the meters themselves. In one area I know that the meters have an internal device that shuts off the service if the main valve is closed and then the utility has to be called to reset it.

[GuestParticipant]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fourth year:
Interesting. And I have written to the NYC utility commission to verify what you wrote.ANSWER and THUS you will find what I stated is TRUE

In this area there is a minimum $10,000.00 fine for anyone working on water, gas, or electric lines prior to the meter.<Answer>>>BECAUSE your STATE has no really QUALIFIED Licensed professionals it would appear and THUS the city had to insure public safety.

NYC offered me a job 15 years go to be head honcho of the HPD plumbing department BUT I will not work for chump change (65,000 to start) City and utility employees will be fired if they dabble in plumbing as that is why we have Licensed MASTER PLUMBERS not in name only but in actual training

This is a state law, not a local one. The fine can also applies if you break the line, but the utility has to do the repair and they never do it cheaply.

Answer DUH Of course your STATE cannot allow untrained folks to dabble in plumbing BUT in Civilized states where “plumbers” actually KNOW their job and take this profession seriously We call an 800 NUMBER and have each UTILITY mark where their pipes and electrical cables are buried and then WE dig accordingly.

Why have a “Masters License” if you have to have a civil servant do the job a professional is SUPPOSED to know?

I think YOUR State should actually do away with the licensing and allow city workers to handle ALL sewer and water works and the utilities SHOULD handle all gas and appliance repairs as your plumbing board sure missed the boat when it comes to WHY they have a licensing board if they cant TRUST a LMP to do ALL the actual piping required to run a city

SNIP BELOW
The gas and water companies also do not encourage users turning off the water to the house at the meters themselves. In one area I know that the meters have an internal device that shuts off the service if the main valve is closed and then the utility has to be called to reset it.

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THEN WHY have MASTER plumbers licensing if THEY cant be trusted to shut off a valve?

[Author]

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