11 Mar 2001 at 2:51 am #274749MasterPlumbersKeymaster
This message is for SylvanLMP.
I have a stupid question (?)
What does OJT mean exactly?????????
11 Mar 2001 at 3:23 pm #290364
On the Job Training
11 Mar 2001 at 11:31 pm #290365
This question is far from stupid. What is stupid is allowing someone in your home to dabble on your gas and plumbing who is not a holder of a valid master plumbers license.
You see a lot of localities do not have a proper plumbing examination and thus a lot of stumble bums slip past the cracks.
These bums learn by watching another bum work and thus think they are “plumbers”
HEATING is even worse as anyone can put out a sign saying heating expert.
Asking a plumber a few questions to find their competence is always a great idea, demanding to see an actual license is just self protection.
Not all plumbers are created equal and unfortunately the new home buyers are suffering a major loss in quality of life with noise and major piping failures.
If your plumber is not a licensed Master holder, then You are just as qualified as they are and therefor YOU should seriously think about installing your own plumbing systems
Plumbing isn’t magic it is reading and understanding several codes not just the plumbing aspect.
The real “master plumbers” cannot only weld, electric and oxyacetylene and can braze, solder, read and draw plans but can work on all aspects of plumbing including medical gas piping installations. No big deal .
Even a half wit 2nd year apprentice should be able to size the vents, water supply, waste and soil lines plus all storm drainage including interpolation of storm footage to fixture units BUT an apprentice should not be allowed to do the actual installations.
Plumbing is an on going training profession especially if the license holder is a master and takes his/her livelihood seriously
I am not even talking about the new materials being introduced into the trade but the laws governing ADA, and barrier free designs and protection of the potable water system.
Someone seeing me install an acid waste pipe is not the same as actually taking a piece of Pyrex glass and using a flame and roller to make your own beads and installing an acid crock properly sized.
As a Master Plumber they are supposed to have an all around knowledge of several aspects including commercial, industrial, residential, institutional and fire suppression systems.
Now with more and more codes being added some localities are splitting the Master plumbers license like we did here where I had to get a seperate Master fire suppression piping license for my stand pipe and sprinkler installations and inspections.
This “OJT” thing doesn’t hit it when it comes to the NFPA 13 or the ASME section IV.
Either the folks know the codes or they are just playing an at plumbing.
Today a Master plumber had better read up on various materials and their compatibility with other materials especially when relating to other trades like a plumber installing a roof drain on a Koppers KMM roof or a Tamco or a BUR system with and without flow control designs.
Things like this OJT doesn’t teach the dabblers.
Plumbers can specialize in various aspects of the trade, drainage for example is a wide open field especially when handling radioactive waste in a wash down area or battery room floor drain disposal of the acid waste and venting.
A Master plumber is should know the proper means of disposal and handling again this cannot be taught by OJT.
When I went for my certification of medical gas welding/brazing and fusion welding as a “plumber” and required licensing I knew this isn’t something that is OJT without formal classes being given to explain the whys and how’s.
It is very sad when you ask the average plumber “what is considered high pressure on a hot water boiler by code” ASME or NBBI and the answers you get are startling for the lack of eduction some of these are supposed to have.
This is a major reason the Master plumbers license is being broken up in a lot of areas as some folks do not take it seriously enough to keep abreast of the changes so the powers that be are creating “special” licenses for the folks who cant pass a real masters test.
Instead of forcing folks to learn their jobs they lower the standards so the unemployables can feel good about themselves and are given a useless license or journeyman card.
Imagine some apprentice “training” is 12 weeks instead of the normal 5 YEARS 10,000 hours plus a minimum of 720 hours class room and a full 10 YEARS working in the trade before your even eligible to take the masters exams written and practical
41/2 written and 5 hours practical.
Some places require no exams just pay a fee.
This is why I honestly feel if a home owner is contemplating installing plastic piping system should do it themselves.
WHY hire a person who may have less knowledge then you?
If they only have OJT then get a how to Video and you too will have OJT.
ANYONE can install plastic piping and ANYONE can learn to solder BUT not everyone can read and follow instructions as per code.
That is why the codes are eroding as the school systems are turning out illiterate graduates and thus to keep up with demand standards are lowered.
Almost any home owner can do a better job at plastic installations then the majority of non licensed folks out there.
The home owner knows they don’t know and are willing to learn this is why the home owners are far better off doing it themselves with the new simple materials out there.
Have a great one.
By the way see what I mean you addressed this Question to Me but OJT cant follow simple directions This proves my point CANT FOLLOW DIRECTIONS
12 Mar 2001 at 12:01 am #290366
They asked about OJT, not a diatribe on all your useless opinions about the state of the plumbing industry everywhere but in NYC. I saw very little up there that relates to the real world of plumbing
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