Steamheat-iron radiator Replacement Options

[MasterPlumbersKeymaster]

I have a small co-op that is heated via pipes and radiators. Although we’ve had some work done on the radiators (we moved one 3 years ago) they are probably nearly 100 years old. I am certain they need to be bled.

But aside from that, I was wondering if I have any options as far as heating goes to replace them- or even get a separate heating system. I have seen shorter and more compact radiators in plumbing supply stores that I often wonder if they would be a comparable replacement (they certainly would take up less space).

There are only 2 radiators in my entire apt- and 2 floor to ceiling pipes that are heated.

Anyone have ideas on options? Costs? Summer’s coming and it’d be a good time to get cracking on the radiators…

[GuestParticipant]

Radiators give off heat according to the surface area they have. A smaller radiator often means less surface, therefore, less heat. You can find out more about sizing radiators at http://www.hydronic.net in the free lessons there.

Burnham boiler makes radiators in old and new styles. http://www.burnham.com/radiator/58200.cfm
They are available from local plumbing suppliers and many supply salepersons can help you size them for each room. The best way to know how much heat you need in each room is also on the Hydronic Network in the form of heat estimate programs you can run for free there.

If you post information as to whether the system is steam or hot water and how it is piped, others can help on how to vent air if necessary. If we assume that the system is a hot water system, you can purchase keys at hardware stores to bleed the radiator valves at the top side of the radiators. You will want to make sure that there is water pressure high enough to keep the system filled when you do so. You may want to read further in the free lessons to get to know how your system is supposed to work.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

I have a small co-op that is heated via pipes and radiators. Although we’ve had some work done on the radiators (we moved one 3 years ago) they are probably nearly 100 years old. I am certain they need to be bled.<<< SNIP Why bleed a "radiator if it not giving you any trouble?

Are you on a steam or hot water heating system (Most lightly steam ILL bet)

But aside from that, I was wondering if I have any options as far as heating goes to replace them- or even get a separate heating system.<<I would strongly recommend NON electric zone valves

I have seen shorter and more compact radiators in plumbing supply stores that I often wonder if they would be a comparable replacement (they certainly would take up less space). <<There are only 2 radiators in my entire apt- and 2 floor to ceiling pipes that are heated.<<< SNIP

The steam risers are throwing off heat and depending on the type of heat and the pipe size would determine how much heat they give off

Anyone have ideas on options? Costs?<NOW about “COSTS” here s my best shot

Anything that is a good conductor of electricity is a good conductor of heat

copper great for electrical work and great for heating

Plastic not great for electrical work and It is great for handles on frying pans fr insulating heat.

NOW GOLD is great for electronics and thus FANTASTIC for heat so go out and BUY a GOLD Radiator for around $495,000 in 24K ONE big radiator should take the place of several small ones.

Now considering this is sight unseen it MAY cost more (never less) have a great one and HOW much to tune up my car sinse I have your attention? Thank you

Summer’s coming and it’d be a good time to get cracking on the radiators…[/B][/QUOTE]

[GuestParticipant]

Sylvan, Sylvan, Sylvan…. It may surprise you that everyday non-journeyman, non- helper ‘little’
people like myself actually use this site to go into plumbing situations with more than just an ‘uh, I hate my radiators’ sort of call to their local plumber.

You have to understand that homeownership is a learning proposition. And if you’ve always had a super to call, like me, it is a good idea to get some input before you go out there in the big bad world of contracting and stick your foot in your mouth and possibly get screwed.

I do appreciate your answers regarding heat output- but I hate being made to feel like a nincompoop when I’m going to someone/ a guild site for help.

No one wants to intentionally do anything wrong to a place they may be living for the next 30 years. And if it’s attached to a building that houses a whole slew of other people- you have to be very careful how you go about changing things that could possibly effect them.

I am at fault for not making it clear that EVERY pipe in my teeny weeny place is at death’s door- whether it’s my toilet or my tub or my kitchen sink or my heaters- it’s all ready to be replaced. And no, I can’t move and I mostly knew about these things before I bought.

Obviously I can’t pay $495,000 for Gold radiators, but I can collect information about the problems I am facing and hopefully be able to communicate these things in an efficient way to a journeyman (woman) that I might hire.

Thank you for your kind consideration, I hope you have a wonderful day. Christina

[GuestParticipant]

I apologize for being snide. It’s just that I had looked into a few of the other questions posted on the board and got to read a lot of bickering between you and Wallingford. I guess I don’t know about plumbing… But I do know about searching for some insight into little problems. It gets a little bit difficult on the layman end to weed through what is helpful info and what are 2 MP’s (or helpers or journeymen) slamming each other’s abilities.

I hope I haven’t banned myself from future information- I really do find this site very helpful.

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

Moneypit,I find myself once again having to apologize for Sylvan.For some reason he feels the need to attack people instead of helping them. I think what set him off this time was when you suggested replacing your 100 year old radiators.You see Sylvan has a real problem with change.I apologize myself if any of my postings have bothered you.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

Christina, your questions were very valid UNTIL you asked how much?

Let me ask you a question Suppose I asked you how much for a container of milk.

The very 1st question you would ask is what size container correct?

Same with sizing radiators.

Please do not apologize for being snide I love it, Sarcasm is fun and IM glad to see it as it shows your thinking.

The problem with sight unseen advice is all the variables involved.
For example

1-What size radiators are you going to need for EDR (heating surface)

2- What will the contractor near you charge as his/her over head can vary a lot from area to area

3- When working on older systems you have no idea what else may fail once it is disturbed

4- Are there steam traps that will have to be replaced besides the radiator valves?

5-If this is a hot water system (hydronics) it cost a lot more to work on as drain down and fill up time takes its toll on man hours.

This one idiot helper felt a “plumber” charged to much to change a $5.00 part on a gas fired appliance.

This helper has no idea how much it cost to run a legitimate business and the cost of continuing training of employees.

The material in the above case was cheap BUT the labor and equipment and knowledge didn’t come cheap.

Replacing radiators are not a hit and miss thing heating is a science.

You can even order custom covers to hide these rads if you find them that ugly.

Please feel free to E mail me anytime you have a question and ILL do my best to answer you in a civil manner

This reminds me about a tune up I needed for two of my cars

One of the cars had a 2.3-16 Valve engine the other is 2.4 16 Valve

The 2.5 is a 2000 Subaru and a 30,000 mile tune up cost under $300

The 87 Mercedes in 1987 cost me $970 for a 30,000 mile tune up. YET the Subaru is a much better handling car in the snow or rain BUT the Mercedes was much faster and BOTH had about the same sized engine.

So asking prices doesn’t tell you if your getting the right job no matter how much you pay.

The upstate plumbers are working with 2nd rate codes if any and there is NO real training for journeymen.
That is why I argue with their use of one type of material for a fits all application.

Here is an answer I just recieved from another “snide” posting I just answered.

Thanks for the questions. You’ve helped me understand what the job could
entail. It’s clear that I need to call a Master Plumber and not someone who
does “plummin”!

SF. Jay

Christina anytime ou have a question please feel free to E mail me. My list has the top heating folks in the country on it.

Never apologize for speaking your mind Your great and a marvelous sport. Respectfully Sylvan

[GuestParticipant]

Thanks so much for your last answer. I guess asking prices is a little off base. Last year I had 3 different Arborists (tree people) come in and give me quotes on taking down a tree in my backyard. they ranged from $800 to $2200. The tree is still there… I have a soft spot for the nesting flickers (as well I should).

I hope someday I can have all of the pipes in my place replaced… I appreciate the radiator advice- I will probably go with the covers, make a nice (hot) bench area.

Thanks alot, have a great day, C.

[SylvanLMPParticipant]

quote:

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Originally posted by moneypit_owner:
Thanks so much for your last answer. I guess asking prices is a little off base. Last year I had 3 different Arborists (tree people) come in and give me quotes on taking down a tree in my backyard. they ranged from $800 to $2200. The tree is still there… I have a soft spot for the nesting flickers (as well I should).

I hope someday I can have all of the pipes in my place replaced… I appreciate the radiator advice- I will probably go with the covers, make a nice (hot) bench area.
Just keep plants off it unless they are cactus

Thanks alot, have a great day, C.

---

I am so glad We have a live one on here.

Christina, when you are ready to overhaul your heating system please feel free to contact me as I have some of the most talented folks in the industry on my list from several countries and almost every state.

BE CAREFUL for example New York State allows ANYONE to dabble in heating with no training what so ever and no written test. Some of these mutts go from home to home doing their damage and moving on.

Any stumble bum can hang a sign out saying “heating” and these fly by nights are what makes it bad for the real licensed professionals.

I am so glad you realized what I meant what comparing gold to steel as sight unseen NO ONE legitimate would dare venture guessing a price or which materials would be the best for each application.

I am a list owner and have some of the most talented folks in the industry as members.

If you have any questions please feel free to E mail me and ILL put you in touch with the right person for the job. Harold is one of the best and we have and Rod who knows just about everything in these fields.

IM just an E mail away.

Enjoy your covers as they do look a lot better then standing radiators UNLESS you have the great looking embossed type of the turn of the century.

I am so glad you have a marvelous sense of humor. SylvanLMP

Here is an article for you to read BEFORE you hire a “heating” contractor.
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbing/plumbviews/2000/heating.html

It take intelligence to recognize sarcastic humor too bad some folks are severly lacking in this quality

[Wallingford Plm+HtgParticipant]

Call the old man and get a modern STEAM SYSTEM installed.

[Author]

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