Nice change!!

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    • #273719
      MasterPlumbers
      Keymaster

      Just wanted to say I’ve noticed quite a change in the postings the past few weeks. Seems to be a lot less flaming and hostilities on this site. Nice to see!! Way to go, everyone. Thanks. Joshua

    • #288377

      I think being nice is getting to be a strain on some of the posters. It is starting to get back to normal.

    • #288378

      I hadn’t really noticed that, Fourth Year, but maybe our posting will be a reminder. I don’t expect everyone to have the warm fuzzies for each other, sitting around the campfire singing “Kumbaya” and all. Just show a little respect for other plumbers and the non-plumbers who post to this site. Joshua.

    • #288379

      I do’t know if you noticed, but the persons we are referring to are already showing about as “little respect for other plumbers etc.” as it is possible to show.

    • #288380

      Just for my own curiosity, Fourth Year, I went back through a number of pages of postings, and to be honest, I really didn’t read anything to flaming, derogotory, etc… I think I know of the people you are referring to, but other than a few extra lonnnnnnngg postings, I thought most of the postings stayed on topic, more or less. I know that the
      recent topic on “Union plumbers” had quite a long thread and could easily had turned nasty, but I think everyone, in general, were on their best behavior. Joshua

    • #288381

      Hi Joshua, As a “plumber” I just cant stupidity and wrong advice especially given by a helper who by all rights should never be left unattended on a job.

      A helper/apprentice just knows enough to get someone hurt or possibly killed.

      Unless someone actually passed the license master plumbing test or the very least has been a licensed journeyman for a few years your taking a heck of a chance allowing these barley skilled folks in your home.

      A helper/apprentice is just that they help the mechanic not actually doing the work.

      Several licensed plumber and journeymen had their licenses revoked (rightfully so) for allowing these unknowing people to dabbling in this trade.

      Even the unions frown upon letting a helper do anything that requires more then minimum skills.

      On the larger jobs an apprentice goes for coffee and carries the mechanics tools and cleans up after the journeyman.

      They have to start at the bottom to learn the proper work neat and take care of the hand tools (most of the shops would never let an apprentice touch a torch or power tool until they passed the 2nd year of training.

      As a 5th year helper they start learning basic codes and possibly doing more of the mundane tasks like using plastic pipe and soldering BUT they still must be watched carefully.

      After more then 30 years in this field I’m still learning every day (I started at 17).

      As long as the advice given on here is plausible and not a direct conflict with safe practices then there would never be any negitive comments BUT having a simple helper giving advice other then how to carry a tool box is just asking for trouble.

      This is why I constantly say “Ask to see the journeyman card or the License Master plumbers license” this is for your protection as a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing.

    • #288382

      Boy, since New York used to have a ratio of about 5 apprentices to 1 Journeyman, you guys must drink a lot of coffee, else you have more tools than anyone can possibly use.

    • #288383

      Since I am more of an Oats and Wheat man, I am not really barley skilled.

    • #288384

      Since I am more of an Oats and Wheat man, I am not really barley skilled.

    • #288385

      Hey helper you got it backwards (as usual)

      It is 1 apprentice for every 3-5 mechanics.
      What good is an apprentice without guidence?

      No one in their right mind would ever trust a “helper” without VERY close supervision to do anything mechanical

      Besides the better plumbing codes do require a journeymen’s license to perform work under the DIRECT Employ of the Master plumber.

      A few Master plumbers did have their licenses revoked for allowing HELPERS to dabble out in the field alone and unprotected from themselves.

      Unfortunately a helper doesn’t even know they know anything but the very basics just enough to get themselves in trouble.

      NYC at one time would not allow a journeyman to even take the master test without actually having proof they actually worked in the trade for 10 years prior to taking the exam.

      I yet to see a “Helper” who could get a coffee order straight for his mechanic and tutor let alone know ANYTHING about the codes required.

      Listen apprentice in about 10 years YOU may be a decent mechanic as even a journeyman is still NOT ALLOWED to own their own plumbing business they are still come under the master plumbers license.

      Even when I was a U/A Class A journeyman and was paid mechanics money in my 3rd year of apprenticeship I was still an apprentice LEARNING which is what you should be doing instead of giving such bad advice out here.

      Once you realize your NEVER going to “know it all” that is half the battle.

      IM still learning every day

    • #288386

      You mean even after 3 years you were still learning how to add cream and sugar to coffee? Maybe someday in the next year or so I will ahve learned everything as you have appeared to have done since you became a journeyman. As you said, an apprentice does not know anything until he graduates.

      And I did not say “I” installed the shutoff valves in the systems, I said they are already there for service purposes. Mainly to keep from getting scammed with a huge shutdown bill just to replace a valve or possibly a heating coil.

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