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MasterPlumbers
In the past two months, we have had something change. Now, every once in a while in the evening, when we turn on our water (hot or cold) The house starts to shake and makes a very load vibration noise. It sends my young daughter running and screaming for MOM and my wife wants to dive under a table. I had one plumber come out, he thought it might be a water pressure problem on our hot water and put a compression tank on the hot water heater. (cold water pressure is 70psi and hot was 73psi) But the problem did not go away. Why did this start and HOW can I get rid of it?
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Try opening one faucet at a time and see if it happens on cold hot or both and if this happens on all the faucets including the out side hose bibbs.
Then we can possibly pin point the exact problem
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Last night I had flushed the toilet and it happened again. I turned on the cold water at the sink and it went away, while the sink was on, I then turned offthe cold and turned on the hot and it went away. But as soon as I turned the hot off, the toilet was still filling up, the noise came back. It seems the only way to stop the noise, is to turn on another water source, and turn it off very very slow. Help, my poor daughter is starting to fear every time we turn on the water.
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Oh, OK Sylvan its yor turn to tell him to put apressur reducer on and call a plummer for $1000 and change the valve to a more expensive one.
Or maybe he should just choke down on the hand valve belo the tank to cut down on the water flow for FREE.
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OK a clue is found
Try looking to the left bottom side of your toilet tank for a valve.
Close this valve slightly and flush again.
Chances are it is either a bad angle stop (valve) supplying the toilet OR a bad fill valve ball cock.
The easiest one to replace is the ball cock.
A 400A is code approved as it has a built in vacuum breaker and the entire device can be bought for about $4.00
The directions are very easy to follow for the installation and adjustments and takes about 20 minutes.
My normal installation charge is around $125 + BUT every other place in the country has their own pricing. This may give you a budget idea
The hard part is finding the exact source of the noise and BY golly you did it hopefully. Good luck and if you have any questions feel free to E mail me
Have fun.
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Hey Nick what’s a “apressur” reducer? Or a plummer?
What do you mean by “choke down” ?
Are you trying to say throttle down a valve SIGHT unseen?
After all Nick you do know that if you “choke down” a gate valve your going to cause turbulent flow contrary to Hazen Williams formulas and thus cause possible erosion of the copper piping supply.
Did you take into consideration the fact that throttling down a gate valve also causes hydraulic waves and premature Valve failure?
By me telling him to look for an ANGLE stop this automatically tells me its a globe pattern type of valve DESIGNED for throttling HUH Nick?
Hey Nick what a valve “belo” is this a bellows type of valve?
After all you do give plumbing advice and I was curious as to your training back ground.
Your borderline criminal advice is going to get some one severely hurt
[Edited by Moderator on 26 September 2000] -
Skeeter, don’t let this guy bulli you either. Theres only one valv there below the tank anyway so you turn it closed a little. He gets off on spelling and gate valvs and lisenses and weird stuff. So you got the job don cheap. good. Then if you dont get it to quite down you call somebody good with his hands like me. What big thing can go wrong its already there and you only have noise.
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Nick Hydro wrote on 13 September 2000 at 10:13 PM:
Skeeter, don’t let this guy bulli you either. Theres only one valv there below the tank anyway so you turn it closed a little.<Wrong NOT all tanks have a shut off valve some stumble bums (NON licensed guys) use a tile stop ONE valve to control all the cold water in each bathroom He gets off on spelling and gate valvs and lisenses and weird stuff. So you got the job don cheap. good.
Sure WHO needs licenses and INSURANCE after all Hydro drives a car without a license and takes his family to a basement doctor as the unlicensed guy works cheaper Education in the trades is useless A cross connection is impossible gas leaks dont kill and why do work according to codes if it isnt being inspected.
why use a double wall pipe when a lot of times single wall wont actually start a fire.
Go get em Hydro
Then if you dont get it to quite down you call somebody good with his hands like me. What big thing can go wrong its already there and you only have noise.
Yup nick you got great hands and other kills OJT and fixing stuff without any idea WHY
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yeah so look at theis Sylvan guy. No wonder he cant answer the qustion. He starts talking about single and doublewall pipes, like there is one in the bathroom. So whats wrong with him turning the angle stop tighter to slo water so it stops making the valvl noise. Nothing else goes wrong and if it does anybody can fix that too.
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Nick YOUR the best WHO needs a stinking education in the trades
Go out and do what ever it is your doing
Your sound really professional Nick I would not hesitate to let you go to my commercial accounts.
They could use a great laugh.
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Hey Sylvan,
What do you mean you would hesitate to allow Nick to go to your commercial accounts. Dang, you wouldn’t allow him to clean the toilets. Don’t worry, people see the difference in integrity versus stupidity.
Pops -
I dont need yor commercal accounts. The senior citisens and the card at Home Depot makes me enugh work just from recomends. I do it right, the proof is that you cant anser with facts, just cheap shots. Nothin can go wrong by doing what I say so you cant find anything that can go rong.
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Harold taught you everything he knows and YOU still know Nothing huh?
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quote:
Originally posted by SylvanLMP:
Nick YOUR the best WHO needs a stinking education in the trades
SylvanLIMP:
You tease Nick for his spelling mistakes, yet you clearly do not know the difference between “your” and “you’re.” You IGNORANTLY keep making the same mistake.
“Your” = that which belongs to you
“You’re” = you areSylvanLIMP: YOU’RE the one who needs a stinking education, as YOUR inability to distinguish the two words is apparent.
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Christ, its like a preschool yard in here ….. you lot wanna grow up and help skeeter, remember him ?? he’s the one at the top of the page
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Rigt Jack. Spellin dosnt get the job done. They dont chek spellin on the plummer test. Sylvan even brings in Harold who dosnt have to do with plummin I only ask him about heat and cool which he knows. I dont have to ask about plummin you just do it with hands and watch people do it. You only hav to go to the supply and they tell you how to do it in the book. I asked Sylvan 3 time now what culd go wrong fixing the bathroom and he dont know.
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Ok, it is me again, my wife is about to move out and my daughter fears the water now. ALL because of this water noise. Now, here is the problem again. In the evening, for the most part. Sometimes, when we turn on water in the Shower, tub, bathroom or kitchen sink, or toilet, we get this SHAKING and NOISE like we are having an earthquake. The only way I have found to stop the noise is to turn on another water source (if the tub started the noise, then turn on the sink) Slowly back of the water on the sink, and the noise/shaking will go away. We had one plumber come out and say it was a pressure problem on the hot water (73psi). He put a compression tank on the hot water tank ($365.00). We still have the problem, the cold water pressure is at 70psi, the problem seems to happen in the evening only. Any ideas?????
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Are you using a dish washwer or washing machine at the same time?
A solenoid valve could cause this kind of vibration “quick closing valves”
The pressure you stated is not that high
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Going by your second post, its the washer in the inlet valve of the cistern, either replace the washer in the valve or the whole valve with a fluidmaster
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The arguments over spelling are useless. I know most plumbers are horrendous spellers. However, resorting to name calling doesn’t change the fact that TiegerLMP seems to know what he’s talking about, and anyone talking about “choking” down a valve would have no problem using garden hose to hook up a gas line. I would trust someone with a license, insurance and being an expert witness (since it shows he has familiarity with the codes) than some glorified handyman.
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You guys sur blow lot of smoke. the only anwers were done by Bungie and me. Richard dont know that a lawnmoer and car has a vavle called a choke to cut down on air yuo choke the vavle. It OK to say choke the valv. You guys better get a hering aid and get some eksperiense.
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We do have both a dishwasher and a washer, but we are not using them at the same time. The shaking/noise seems to run under the whole floor of the house, I can’t seem to track it to a certain location.
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Is has become evident that the tuned length of the pipe is at a critical resonant frequency. The noise occurs in the evening, after the water heater has had time to heat the fresh charge of potable water and separate air from the water. This creates an air pocket in high places before the valves to a variety of outlets.
Part of the resonance is due to the pressure creating air pockets of exact length. when the valve is opened, water whistling past the riser to the outlet at excessive velocity creates sound similar to the highest tone of a water organ. It is necessary to rearrange the tuned length so air does not gather in the chambers and it is also imperative to reduce the water pressure to change the resonant frequency to a deeper harmonic.
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Israel Wright, what in the world does this mean in computer geek (my occupation)speech? Are you saying a section of pipe has come loose, and all I need to do it fix that? Would I just crawl around in the crawl space and look for a section that has come loose? OR could this be in one of the walls?
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Mr. Skeeter. Unfortunately hydraulic and pneumatic applied physics does not directly translate to your field of endeavor consisting primarily of electronic binary transmission and metalanguage. You will be required to physically examine all plumbing terminations to determine the likely candidates for modification when required. In regard to the pressure modification, the services of an adequately prepared professional, such as a Licensed Master Plumber are required. I have observed that a Mr. Bungie uses pressure regulation as a standard practice in his locale. Also a Mr. Sylvan specifies and recommends certain means for air removal at the point of the domestic hot water appliance. Once these parameters have been changed, the sound should attenuate to the satisfaction of you and yours.
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Mr. Israel Wright has brought up some very sound points with regard to piping supports.
If you have excessive runs of unsupported piping this would could cause severe banging in the system.
Have someone run the fixtures in question as another person searches the crawl spaces. OR try closing off one toilet and see if this noise stops then try another toilet. Good luck
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NICk: I speak German, English, some Hebrew and Dutch. Yet, I cannot understand the language you are using. Either it is a language of your own creation, or you are totally ignorant of all rules of syntax. How can someone profess to be a plumber when he is for the most part illitarate? Buy a copy of Hooked on Phonics, and go back to grammer school.
BTW: I am not a plumber, nor do I profess to be, I am an analytical chemist with a second degree in philosophy. I worked as a plumber’s helper to pay my way through my first few semesters of undergraduate work.
[Edited by Richard on 16 September 2000] -
Nick, my friend. Do you want cheap, or do you want right. When I do an analysis, whatever it is, I tell them you can have it cheap, quick or right, but they have to pick one out of the 3. I can tell that your education was of the cheap variety, as it explains why you dont even write English as well as anyone I’ve ever met, except maybe some uneducated fool.
Nick,Mein Freund! Willst du etwas billig, oder richtig? Wenn ich eine Analyze mochte, sag ich immer “Wollen Sie es billig, schnell oder richtig? Sie koennen nur ein von dieses drei haben.” Es ist ganz klar von deine Schreiben das du hat nichts gelernt, als du hast der Heraushoren von die billige Varietaet. Davon es klar ist warum du kannst nicht auf gut Englisch schreibst als jedeman ich kenne. Vielleicht nicht zum ein Bischen Bloedsinen!
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NICK, as an answer to my business, I do water quality analysis in my own lab, as well as develop reagents that they use to test blood. So please, ask before you fight with me on this site, and look even more like a handyman.
Nick, als ein Antwort ueber meine Wirtschaft, tun ich Wasserqualitaetexamen mit meine Laboraum, auch ich versuche Reagenz das man arbeit mit noch blutexamen. So bitte, Frage bevor du kampf mit mir am diese Site, und sehe nach man aus gleich einer Mann fuer alles.
[Edited by Richard on 16 September 2000]
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Excuse me gentlemen, but I am the one here with the problem remember?? I think out of the 30 posting for my question, about half are related to my question, the other half are you “gentlemen attacking each other.
Now, Back to my problem…. Yesterday, I turned on the outside sprinkler system, for the first time in about 3 weeks, guess what, the same old problem of shaking/noise was back. The sprinkler system runs off the main line about 8ft in from the meter, and 3ft from where the main line does under the foundation of the house. My question, now is, Could this still be a looses section of pipe or are we now, looking in a new direction. I did nothing to “stop” this shaking/noise this time, it was a pretty low sound compared to when the water is running in the house (and my wife and daughter were not home to PANIC), and it went away after about 2min. Now……Gentlemen, are we still looking at the same problem, or something new?
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Youll notice Skeeter that I answer yuor qestions. If like the right guys but annoying like Sylvan said there is shakin then put straps on the pip first. Tha gets rid of noise andits cheep. Then you can do like Israel sas I understood a litle of it.
Dont bother with Richard hes a egghed speak forign lanwiges and dont give advise. I know a few words too for hm like schmuck. A 2 yaer wonderhelper.
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Nick, if you think I was writing in Hebrew, you are far from right. I really went off on you worse in the German than the English, but since you can read or write neither language, I guess I have to resort to showing you pictures. I do give advice, especially regarding water quality, and other environmental concerns. It seems you envy my education, and all info I give I also ask my girlfriend about (who is a geochemist and chemical engineer). Do us a favor, try and close your mouth before your foot has to be surgically removed from it. All you show is your ignorance, please, there is enough of that in the world.
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Richard wen ar yu goin to help Skeeter? Wat are yu doin here? Yu advertisin yer busines? Yur shur no help to Skeeter. Igess yu got all the info yu can get here Skeeter. This Rich psycoputz is gust her to march his bootnayls back to germany.
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Nick wrote:
Nick Hydro wrote on 16 September 2000 at 06:48 PM:
Richard wen ar yu goin to help Skeeter? Wat are yu doin here? Yu advertisin yer busines? Yur shur no help to Skeeter. Igess yu got all the info yu can get here Skeeter. This Rich psycoputz is gust her to march his bootnayls back to germany.Lets play a game, whoever correctly guesses the number of spelling and gramatical mistakes (and making up words that don’t exist) wins a prize, self-satisfaction and a good laugh.
Secondly, I am not from Germany, I did some of my graduate work there on DNA conformational analysis.
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The direct translation just doesnt have the sting
“Nod, as response over my economics, do I water quality exams with my Laboraum, also I try reagent which one work with still blood exams. Thus ask, question before you fight
with me to this Site, and see after one out equal man for everything.” -
Skeeter,
have you found the problem yet ??
OR still looking ?
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No, Ihave not found the problem yet. The reason is, I am waiting for it to start again during the day light hours. I hate to say it, but I HATE crawling around in my crawl space, bugs…mice…maybe rats….YUCK!!! YIKES!!!
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Sketter,
Just that the valve apart, the one that is giving you the troubles, and tighten up the washer on the bottom of the stem.
A loose washer causes vibration, in turn will rattle the hell out of the pipes.
Plumber John
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