Corrosion Of Copper Pipe

[Blackbeard]

My three year old plumbing (L wall (heavy wall)) copper pipe is developing pin hole leaks. 3 in the last month. Ive had the water tested and my PH is 6.9, my hardness is 78.9 mg/l. The chemist thinks it may be electromotive force (electrolosis). Ive disconnected the ground strap from my electrical service and checked for ac/dc volts and miliamps but found no measurable output. At this point Im condsidering replacing all of the copper pipe in my house with cross linked polyethelene h/c pipe because it comes in 50 foot rolls and is flexible (fewer connections and able to snake through walls. Does anybody have any ideas about the cause of my corrosion and how to confirm the cause and whether I should replace all the plunbing and what the best replacement method/material might be? I would very much appreciate an answer as I am expecting more leaks in the near future. Thanks! Keith

[Keith GagneParticipant]

Keith: Welcome to the World of Pin Hole leaks and what can be done about it. The Ph of your water is very good, almost perfect. Your Chemist is correct, the EMF (the electromotive force also known as voltage) is the real cause of your pin hole problems. Basicly, this is what is going on inside your piping that is generating these pin hole leaks…..1. The water traveling through your piping has the ability to conduct electrical energy. A combination of dissolved minerals and gasses in the water give it this conductive ability. In your case , your water is just a tad on the acidic side, but really very good.2. Induced voltage (EMF) from the presence of disimmilar metals within the system as well as from spurious electrical sources from external sources. The amount of this voltage requires a good quality volt meter to detect, were talking about milli volts( 1,000 millivolts = 1 volt)3. As the water passes through the Copper tunnel that is your piping system, the millivoltage present allows the conductive water to entice Copper atoms to disolve and take a ride. This process is known as Electrolytic Corrosionand has been around for a long time.4. The Copper atoms very quickly find new friends in the water such as Chlorine, and forms a new material Copper Chloride or if there is a dab of sulfur in the water it will marry up with it to form Copper Sulphate. As the atoms of Copper leave the walls of the piping, the pipe begins to get thinner and thinner until the first pin hole leak is formed. This area inside the pipe where the Copper is being disolved is known as a cell5. If you see green stains on your plumbing fixtures, or you have a bitter taste in the water (especially if has been sitting in the pipe for a while), thats your que that bad things are going on inside.6. There is a way to beat this very unpleasent scenario by simply installing a device in the incoming water line. It not only will protect your piping from leaching into the water that you drink, it will prevent the Lead or other heavy metals from being leached from the soldered fittings in the system as well.Repiping your home with Pex or CPVC is a choice that also has some problems. A field mouse that only weighs a few ounces has no problems chewing (gnawing) through this material in nothing flat. I guess there is no perfect piping material, but with a little help, Copper is still my favorite. Check out the web site below, if you would like more info on the solution to pin hole problems, E-Mail me your mailing address, and I will see to it that you receive some interesting and informative material on the subject.. Lots of luck with your project…Bud Suncoast Plumbing Inc. Sunny Florida St. Lic.CFC037167: My three year old plumbing (L wall (heavy wall)) copper pipe is developing pin hole leaks. 3 in the last month. Ive had the water tested and my PH is 6.9, my hardness is 78.9 mg/l. The chemist thinks it may be electromotive force (electrolosis). Ive disconnected the ground strap from my electrical service and checked for ac/dc volts and miliamps but found no measurable output. At this point Im condsidering replacing all of the copper pipe in my house with cross linked polyethelene h/c pipe because it comes in 50 foot rolls and is flexible (fewer connections and able to snake through walls. Does anybody have any ideas about the cause of my corrosion and how to confirm the cause and whether I should replace all the plunbing and what the best replacement method/material might be? I would very much appreciate an answer as I am expecting more leaks in the near future. : Thanks! Keith

[Keith GagneParticipant]

Bud,Thanks for the reply, …So you suggestion would be to install all new copper plumbing and then install the device you referred to on the supply line?Keith

[Keith GagneParticipant]

You should check to see what the pH is at the house. A lab test is not done on-site and the pH goes up in the time taken to transport the sample to the lab + how long it takes before it is tested. Check with a local water treatment company for information on water in your area> the hardness is low< your alkalinity will probably be low, and the ph is likely low. Have the lab do a Langlier Index on your water with the sample taken and transported in an approved container with no air and tested immediately on receipt. If they are not local, try a swim pool or spa dealer in the area.

[Keith GagneParticipant]

: Keith: Welcome to the World of Pin Hole leaks and what can be done about it. : The Ph of your water is very good, almost perfect. Your Chemist is correct, the EMF (the electromotive force also known as voltage) is the real cause of your pin hole problems. Basicly, this is what is going on inside your piping that is generating these pin hole leaks…..: 1. The water traveling through your piping has the ability to conduct electrical energy. A combination of dissolved minerals and gasses in the water give it this conductive ability. In your case , your water is just a tad on the acidic side, but really very good.: 2. Induced voltage (EMF) from the presence of disimmilar metals within the system as well as from spurious electrical sources from external sources. The amount of this voltage requires a good quality volt meter to detect, were talking about milli volts( 1,000 millivolts = 1 volt): 3. As the water passes through the Copper tunnel that is your piping system, the millivoltage present allows the conductive water to entice Copper atoms to disolve and take a ride. This process is known as Electrolytic Corrosionand : has been around for a long time.: 4. The Copper atoms very quickly find new friends in the water such as Chlorine, and forms a new material Copper Chloride or if there is a dab of sulfur in the water it will marry up with it to form Copper Sulphate. As the atoms of Copper : leave the walls of the piping, the pipe begins to get thinner and thinner until the first pin hole leak is formed. This area inside the pipe where the Copper is being disolved is known as a cell: 5. If you see green stains on your plumbing fixtures, or you have a bitter taste in the water : (especially if has been sitting in the pipe for a while), thats your que that bad things are going on inside.: 6. There is a way to beat this very unpleasent scenario by simply installing a device in the incoming water line. It not only will protect your : piping from leaching into the water that you drink, it will prevent the Lead or other heavy metals from being leached from the soldered fittings in the system as well.: Repiping your home with Pex or CPVC is a choice that also has some problems. A field mouse that only weighs a few ounces has no problems chewing (gnawing) through this material in nothing flat. I guess there is no perfect piping material, but with a little help, Copper is still my favorite. Check out the web site below, if you would like more info on the solution to pin hole problems, E-Mail me your mailing address, and I will see to it that you receive some interesting and informative material on the subject.. Lots of luck with your project…Bud : Suncoast Plumbing Inc. : Sunny Florida : St. Lic.CFC037167: : : My three year old plumbing (L wall (heavy wall)) copper pipe is developing pin hole leaks. 3 in the last month. Ive had the water tested and my PH is 6.9, my hardness is 78.9 mg/l. The chemist thinks it may be electromotive force (electrolosis). Ive disconnected the ground strap from my electrical service and checked for ac/dc volts and miliamps but found no measurable output. At this point Im condsidering replacing all of the copper pipe in my house with cross linked polyethelene h/c pipe because it comes in 50 foot rolls and is flexible (fewer connections and able to snake through walls. Does anybody have any ideas about the cause of my corrosion and how to confirm the cause and whether I should replace all the plunbing and what the best replacement method/material might be? I would very much appreciate an answer as I am expecting more leaks in the near future. : : Thanks! Keith

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