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# Pumping public water over hill

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• #273407
Anonymous

I need to create a system that will pump house water up and over a 150ft rise through about 2000 ft of pipe.

I only have about 40psi of pressure at the water tap. I have no idea where to start. Any clues will be greatly appreiciated.

• #287588
Harold Kestenholz
Participant

Clues… let’s see… I have 40 psig which is good for getting water out of the taps. I have a height of 140 feet to overcome…

____Reminds me of the time the fellow was going to the moon and wanted instructions…I got done, and then he said all that equipment was great; but he could only afford to walk there____

If you are only concerned with getting (unspecified amount of) water over the top, a booster pumpset at the 80 foot high point will get water over the top. 40 psig (without having to overcome much resistance from small pipe)will get water about 90 feet high.
So a booster with more than 20 psig will get it from up there at 80 feet to over the hump.

Now the REAL questions: How much water do you want to get over there; because you have to consider the pipe and pump sizes for flow rates? What are you doing with the water before it enters the booster set; dropping water pressure from taps before you boost it can make strange behavior? What are you using the water for on the other side of the hill; because you will have at least 60 psig at the bottom on the other side, so you might have to reduce the pressure there?

• #287589
cksmile
Participant

I was rather vague in the problem.

The water dept demands that I use 2in pipe the whole way. The rise over the hill is about 160ft (1300 linear ft) but the fall on the other side is only about 80ft (700 linear ft).

I need the water for typical home use (family of 5 or 6) plus some landscaping.

I have been given several different unclear sugestions:

A holding tank at the botom of the hill with a presure pump feeding the house or a tank at top of the hill with a presure pump feeding the tank.

Does this help better define my problem.

• #287590
cksmile
Participant

I was rather vague in the problem.

The water dept demands that I use 2in pipe the whole way. The rise over the hill is about 160ft (1300 linear ft) but the fall on the other side is only about 80ft (700 linear ft).

I need the water for typical home use (family of 5 or 6) plus some landscaping.

I have been given several different unclear sugestions:

A holding tank at the botom of the hill with a presure pump feeding the house or a tank at top of the hill with a presure pump feeding the tank.

Does this help better define my problem.

• #287591
SylvanLMP
Participant

OK lets try this. 40 PSI pressure would equal a height of 92.4 feet and even then the water if it made it that high would only trickle out at best.

So lets figure WHAT kind of use this water is going to serve pressure and volume wise?

Are you supplying just a faucet that requires 6 PSI to operate OR a flushometers that requires a minimum of 25 PSI or several fixtures or a sprinkler system?

So without knowing ANYTHING lets assume you need about 100 PSI at the final outlet.

150 FT converted to pounds pressure would be around 65 PSI. JUST to get to the top.

Then figure the head the pump has to over come (Height and weight of the water) and your Demand in GPM.

OK lets go with an 11/4″ pipe and a TDH of 200′ to over come friction losses and flow rate of 40 GPM. I would go with a 3450 RPM Bronze body or stainless steel close coupled pump compatible to a Federal pump 1 CG 5 horse power.

At any rate I wouldn’t even consider a 1750 RPM pump for this kind of height.

If indeed your TDH is around 180 feet your GPM flow would increase
to 50 GPM with approximately 100 PSI USING 11/4″ piping.

Not knowing your piping materials such as plastic or copper or steel I can only over size this pump as each material has a different flow characteristics as far as friction is concerned.

And you though plumbing was just changing a washer HUH?

• #287592
cksmile
Participant

OK More specific

The pipe in ground is Schedule 40?

My main question is that of general design.

Is a holding tank necessary?
If so where?
How do I control the pump?
Is solar power a feasible solution for the pump to overcome power outages?

• #287593
SylvanLMP
Participant

Ok 160 ft head @ 2″ pipe figuring 150 gpm you will need about 15hp @ 3,450 rpm this should give you around 80 PSI.

Think Bronze

• #287594
Harold Kestenholz
Participant

2-inch pipe is a large size for domestic use, so there is little worry about pipe resistance. the 40-pound pressure uphill will stand the water about 90 feet high. the remaining 50 feet up is the pumping requirement. This takes 20 psig, about 5 psig too short to allow atmospheric pressure to work for you while drawing water from the other side. It is my preference – others may prefer otherwise – to pump the water from the supply side at a point within the first 50 feet height being fed by the city water; so some drops in city pressure will not be a worry of unloading the booster pump. I would pump the water to a holding tank at the top, so the height will produce a natural 35 psig. If there is a temporary lapse in water service, the tank at the top would provide some useful water. Using this method, the pump does not have to be powerfully high-head or special. This is similar in concept to sinking a well with a water source more than 50 feet below ground.

• #287595
Harold Kestenholz
Participant

I didn’t see the question about solar. A large holding tank to provide for interruption during solar outage, or a parallel power source during that time is a possibility. Ten years ago I visited Grundfos and saw their irrigation well systems that run on solar – what a great idea.

• #287596
SylvanLMP
Participant

Hi CK, Here try this place for your solar power. Have fun and good luck
http://www.atlantasolar.com/wattage.html

• #287597
SylvanLMP
Participant

Hey want to save money and have a back up in case of a power outage?
This what US COUNTRY BUMPKINS do in NYC.

When faced with a limited amount of available street pressure and have to get water to the 47th floor of a building (600 ft plus) we let nature give us a helping hand.

We get a SMALL HIGH PRESSURE PUMP that is capable of pumping a min. of 65 GPM.

We then feed a water tank located either on the roof OR on a tower.

Think about it simplicity at work.

You have this tank (normally red wood) holding about 5,000 gallons of water, when this water is being used it activates a ball cock that allows water to fill and as this water flows it drops the pressure in the hydro- pneumatic tank located in the basement to start pumping up pressure again.

You could also use a pressure booster pump than when the pressure drops below a certain set point the pump kicks on.

The beauty of this system you can use a relatively small pump to just maintain volume in this tank so you have no concerns about peak demand times.

This little pump can fill this tank at its leisure.

Now if a power failure should occur you have VOLUME back up working on gravity flow.

Now for some useful information

They do make battery operated high pressure pumps for this kind of operation OR you could also opt for a back up generator located in your pump room.

Just remember this simple formula take the height of the tank outlet above the homes times this by
.434 and this will give you the pressure you will get at the outlets in the home PLUS add the height of the water in the tank.

With this much volume to play with you can also use the gravity feed to use for irrigation, fire suppression systems OR supply to another pressure booster.

Hey you could install more tanks OR a bigger one as needs change.

I still work on these tanks and they are a great option to high priced pumps and lead and lag systems.

Then of course you can add bells and whistles like a high water alarm OR a low water alarm OR a 2nd controller to kick in another pump if the 1st one for some reason cant keep up with the demand.

Yes, there is a way to over come ANYTHING in plumbing. All you have to do is EXPLAIN the job properly. Have a great one.