18 Jul 2000 at 4:58 am #273221MasterPlumbersKeymaster
We have an inground pool which has a drain off pipe that runs under the house and connects with a p trap to our sewer line. That way if we need to drain the pool the water goes into the sanitary sewer and not the storm sewer. The connection in in the front of the house, in a area we want to pave over for a porch. The p trap/pipe is about 6 inches high now. Question is, should we leave a area open around this pipe connect, or could we connect it below ground? We are concerned about access for sewer cleanout, with the tree roots in the area.
18 Jul 2000 at 7:16 pm #287112
Wow I hope your kidding about your swimming pool having a DIRECT connection to your sanitary sewer system. Ask your local Master Plumber about an air Break on drainage and Air gap on water supply and what it means to have a cross connection.
Does contamination rig a bell?
19 Jul 2000 at 12:02 am #287113
I am not sure of the terms you used, the drain is used to backwash the sand filter and drain the pool, which is triggered by pulling a lever up, which switches something in the piping. The setup is about 25 years old, done by the original pool installer.
19 Jul 2000 at 2:15 am #287114
What you want to avoid is a direct connection of the pool water with a sanitary sewer/line.
My strongest suggestion would be call several licensed Master plumbers and ask them their HOURLY rate to come over and just check the piping discharge from your pool for a possible health hazard.
Only let the LMP look not one of his/her employees Unless they have a journeyman card.
A cross connection can actually make someone very ill and having this inspected is for your protection. Good luck I’m sorry for being too technical please if you have any questions feel free to E mail me.
20 Jul 2000 at 1:13 pm #287115
You have to excuse Sylvan. Sometimes he goes off on a tangent that is completely irrelevent to the question. His reply is regarding the water supply to the pool and has no bearing on your question. The best thing in your case would be to remove the P trap at the sewer connection and put the P trap at the filter location, ideally in the ground with the filter drain emptying above it. But you also want to make sure that the sewer cleanout is accessible for future servicing.
20 Jul 2000 at 4:54 pm #287116
HJ before you suggest removing a “P” trap don’t you think YOU should at least know the location of the nearest Vent piping? Oh that’s right you haven’t learned about vents yet OR indirect waste piping. HJ YOU honestly should ask a mechanic to explain CODE to you.
Unfortunately HJ is NOT a plumber YET but he is trying to learn. Bet he has no idea what apprentice training is all about
He is not up to waste or vent piping as he is still learning fittings.
Most PLUMBER would use a double vent running trap on a pool for easy maintenance BUT then again YOU have not learned about this yet.
To tell someone REMOVE and relocate a trap AND still connect a pool to a sanitary system shows the lack of training or responsibility to YOUR VICTIMS. You have this Fly by night mentality.
He is the reason MORE code compliance officers are needed and this letting non licensed guys with no testing should be outlawed
You HJ are really have no idea what your saying as If you come across connection YOU would fall right over it and never notice that your NOT supposed to put peoples health in RISK by the very real possibility of sewerage flowing BACK into the pool from a DIRECT ILLEGAL connection.
If brains were TNT you couldn’t even blow your nose. PLEASE READ ASSE publications and PLEASE find another field like try being a painter or something GET out of plumbing as YOU will NEVER be anything but a tech mentality.
HJ proved his lack of (plumbing) mentality with several postings saying USE this system as it is CHEAPER He most lightly wouldnt use any vent piping as it cost more than a NON Pro vent. HJ not evenone puts PRICE over health.
20 Jul 2000 at 6:05 pm #287117
Go ahead and remove the p-trap. Pave over your area leaving the cleanout opening cover it with approved cover flush with grade. Cut back the pipe that runs under your house and expose in proximity of new pavement. When you wish to backwash or drain your pool you will need to open the existing cleanout and use some temporary soft discharge pipe run into the paved over sewer cleanout. When this pipe is not used cover pipe ends wiht caps to keep rodents out of it. You don’t want a permanent connection between your sewer and pool. For reasons listed in prior posts
20 Jul 2000 at 6:28 pm #287118
“You don’t want a permanent connection between your sewer and pool. For reasons listed in prior posts”
Thank YOU David. finally someone who knows about putting people in contact with sewers is not realy great plumbing practices.
Your idea about a flexible disconnected pipe was a fantastic idea ( I wish I though of it)
Thank you again for your posting.
22 Jul 2000 at 3:25 am #287119
I have been a plumber for 50 years. I finished the Chicago Local 130 5 year apprenticeship program in 4 years. I worked with the Cabrini street testing lab while in the apprenticeship program. What makes you think the existing P trap has a vent? Did you notice I said to terminate the discharge pipe over the p trap? That is called an indirect connection where I come from. In addition, a pool pump does not create a suction in the filter, so unless the pool filter is below ground there would be no for sewage to be drawn into the filter through the backflow valve. I will not get into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
22 Jul 2000 at 3:31 am #287120
A couple of other things. I was in charge of a ten man journeyman crew while I was in my third year. I ran the plumbing company after the owner had a heart attack in my fourth year. During my second year, I had to fire the local plumbing inspector, (he was one of our journeymen), since he was doing inferior work. I was a Systems analyst and senior programmer at a university in Michigan teaching the professors how to operate computers for several years. So I think I have a little bit of intelligence. But, I have say about you, as I did about one of our workers. “In order to do everything he says he did, he would have to be about 150 years old.”
23 Jul 2000 at 3:34 am #287121
Congratulations HJ being a Journeyman BUT unfortunately I did MY 10,000 Hour apprenticeship (5 year apprenticeship) in THREE YEARS then given my journeymen card Local 2 AFL CIO U/A plumbing industry Board of the having qualified for the US and Canada
I also took my NYC Master plumbers exam and passed BUT I didn’t have enough time in the trade to receive my license. I took it later and again passed and received it
THEN I took long island and Weschester exams NEVER failing any Licensed Master plumbers exams. At 17 years old I went into the Navy and was trained as a HIGH PRESSURE boiler man (BT) Later on I took welding and ship fitting. The day before my 21st birthday I was discharged as a kiddy cruiser (3 year enlistment) I then went to my plumbing training. AFTER I did finish my 5 years EVEN though I was already getting journeymen money and running jobs ( job Supt never was a foreman as I had foremen working for me) I went for stationary engineering certification and PASSED that license (high pressure steam and central absorption systems)
I continued my education I went to Norman Oklahoma for ASME Boiler and unfired pressure vessel inspector classes plus environmental control classes Johnson controls,pneumatic, electronic, and electrically controlled actuators with master and sub master capabilities
etc., including industrial electrical service (NEC) and I am qualified to work up to 440 volts.
I became an instructor in welding and plumbing codes PLUS I took up roofing inspections for a side line as I am considered a roof drain expert getting OVER $1,000 PER DRAIN I install. ( personal best 5 in one 7 hour day)
As a Master plumber (WHICH you failed to mention that you are) I TAUGHT Journeymen plumbers as I had 18 “mechanics” working for me before I was 35 Years old. Before I was 40 I semi retired continuing teaching plumbing, heating welding code interpretation and drain cleaning PLUS I found the time to be an expert witness for several law firms. Which I still do asI like playing Perry Mason and at $225 per hr (min 4 hours it pays the gas)
At one point I was directly in charge of over 700 boilers in the greater NYC area PLUS the US Postal Service hired me as a boiler/plumbing/roofing/ inspector for the North east region INCLUDING your area by the loop.
In Great Lakes ill I did work for the department of the navy ( fire fighting school) and with all this IT DOESN’T MEAN A DARN THING unless you ACTUALLY do the job right and have fun doing it
Now Mr. Systems annalist think about it 17-21 USN training “A” schools and
21- 26 Apprenticeship Plumbing industry
27-30 classes in OU for boiler inspector and unfired pressure vessel inspector (ASME and NBBI) HVAC Stationary engineer/roofing as I was a roofer prior to joining the service.
At 31 was able to take my master plumbers test as NOW I had 10 YEARS working in the trade. At age 32 years old BOUGHT out a plumbing company with 18 mechanics plus office staff
I STARTED another plumbing/heating Fire suppression company as I had the time to pass my Master Fire suppression license and Back flow prevention. Took and passed my certification for medical gas welding brazing THEN gave classes on it.
Sold one of my business for one major profit & semi retired
Continued to go to schools for other aspects of plumbing taking more master tests and giving classes to teach HVAC/OSHA/ Boiler inspection/welding/plumbing.
In less then 11 years in “plumbing” I already had 3 master plumbers licenses Qualified through the U/A for a class “A” journeyman’s card as a qualified “journeyman” to work the USA and Canada plus hospitals and lab work.
so HJ I guess we paid our dues HUH?
Plumbing/drain cleaning and fire suppression systems to me is a hobby as I enjoy it so much as EVERYDAY I still am learning and knowing I can NEVER EVER learn it all makes it that much more interesting.
Being Semi retired is fun doing it because I want to is a great feeling.
Only in America God Bless Have a great one Guy. SylvanLMP/ LMFSPC/DAV Life Member JWV life Member NRA/NFPA/ NAPHCC/ASSE/National Board of Boiler inspectors (NBBI) I would give you the rest of my qualifications BUT I don’t want to depress the old timers LOL who WORK for me.
23 Jul 2000 at 5:50 am #287122
I am the original poster. Thank you gentlemen for your informative and entertaining replies. Especially Daverconn, I like the idea of a removeable cover for the cleanout. As for using a flex hose and cover for the drain, I will have to think as to whether we will remember to hook it up when we backwash the filter! We might blow the cap off, and water the lawn. But it would blow out away from the house so no harm would be done. Again, thanks for the ideas. By the way, the drain is not permanently attached to the cleanout, it sits in it like a clothes washer does to its drain. Maybe that makes it ok, but we are not positive. Always something to learn in an old house!
23 Jul 2000 at 9:34 am #287123
SylvanLMP and hj,
Maybe you should look at the original post. dittomom2 asked about a backwash pipe connection to the sewer, He did not ask to see your resumes. If you two wanna brow beat each other great, But do it in private.
23 Jul 2000 at 6:56 pm #287124
dittomom2 , Have a great week end and thank you for posting a very provocative question LOL
The origional posting did not menthion the air space (air break its called in plumbing drainage) and when I origionally saw your post about connecting to the sewer bells went off.
You seem like you have a marvelous sence of humor and that is that all that honestly counts.
I love stirring up the “older folks” as it gets their heart pumping instead of them relying on Geratol for tired blood
Please by all means keep posting on here as I havnt had so much fun in weeks.
Thank you again Mam for a really enjoyable post as it had everyone guessing . Goes to show you plummmin can be fun after all.
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