Neil..I admire your attitude your spirit is what has made our country so great. Wilbur and Orville Wright were told that it couldnt be done. Robert Fulton was laughed at when he started on the Steam Boat..Columbus was another guy that no one had any confidence in. A mud job however is a whole different Enchilada. If you screw it up, you are talking serious money and alot of work. If you insist on doing it, get a book or a video tape on the subject at your local library, or Home DePot type store. Than study it. Lotsa luck Merry Christmas Bud Suncoast Plumbing Sunny Florida