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Anonymous
I have a sump pump in my basement that has the bathroom sink, shower and washing machine draining into it. I have a smell coming out of there that is mainly noticed when anything dumps into it. I looked at installing a cover for it, but the pump is sitting up off the floor by about a foot or so. If the pump were covered would that take care of the smell? I have built a wooden case to enclose it, to no avail. Please help!!!!!!!
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DFM1, I recommend that you install a plastic sump pump pit which has a gas tight cover, and rubber gaskets on all of the electrical and plumbing ports. The odorous gasses must be vented into the house vent system.
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In reply to message posted by John Aldrich:
DFM1, I recommend that you install a plastic sump pump pit which has a gas tight cover, and rubber gaskets on all of the electrical and plumbing ports. The odorous gasses must be vented into the house vent system.
John I think you need to stay away from the technical aspects of these trades as someone may actually listen to you and get into real trouble.
You see John I never heard of a “plastic pit” I have heard of a plastic sump or a plastic holding tank. but never have I dug up plastic to create a pit.
I have not posted on these boards for a few weeks and seeing how bad your advice is and the foul mouth others are in posting it will be a while before I post on here again.
John please try to refrain giving information out that you really have no understanding about.
Mr. Mendoza, I know your frustration BUT there are a few women who do read these lists and as much I think John Aldrich has no idea about drainage or anything else technical I would not use the foul language you have used.
I think you should realize the lack of training some of the folks giving advice have and thus consider the source and not lower yourself to their level.
Just my opinion sir take it for what it is worth BUT this list can really be interesting if you just ignore the stumblebums postings and realize not everyone can be a real tradesmen.
By the way John seeing as you cannot be expected to know techinical stuff the so called rubber “gasket” on the electrical ports is called a “grommet” I wish Lorenzo could have found someone who knows what they are talking about so folks wont think we are all just handymen.
My God man why dont you TRY to learn something about these fields.?
Now you can fully understand why I kept off this part of the boards. You and the helper are killing this list IMHO
SylvanLMP -
DFM1, well it looks like your inquiry, or my response to your inquiry, has stirred up a hornets nest.
My response to Sylvan’s criticism regarding the nomenclature of the rubber units used to make the ports in the pumping pit lid gas tight is that he is correct. They are called grommets. Sorry about that. I am not a plumber, but I have personnally installed a “plastic sump pump pit” in my home, and it is functioning perfectly with no odors. Advanced Drainage Systems, Inc. manufactures a unit which they call a “plastic sump pump pit.” If Sylvan has never heard of such an item, well I don’t know what to say except that now he has. Installation of a sump pump pit is not all that “technical.” This is not rocket science.
In regard to all of the other responses posted to your inquiry, there was not a single one that offered any positive suggestions to help you. Even Sylvan’s rather verbose response did not reveal any wisdom, or help you in any way. If he would expend as much energy in answering your question as he spent on denigrating my reply, he would truely be rendering a service. The same holds true for all of the other plumbers that responded.
I have left Sylvan’s response on the Bulletin Board so that you can refer to it. I have deleted all of the other messages because they provided no help of any kind to your inquiry. I would appreciate a response from you as to whether or not my reply to your question was helpful.
John W. Aldrich (Septic Tank Yank)
List moderator
Septic System Consultant
All-around Good Guy
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Yeow! I didn’t mean to start a fued here. Thanks for the info. though. One other question: Since the pump is already in a concrete pit, is there any kind of lid or gasket or grommet that can be put over it. There is a recessed area into the floor for some kind of lid to go onto it, but it has never had one since we have lived here, which has been for 13 years. Also, since there is not any sewage going into it, does it really have to be vented? Any info. appreciated! DFM1
» This message has been edited by DFM1 on 14 November 2001
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DFM1, have no worries, you did not start a fued. My response has merely revived a long standing fued that most of the respondents to inquiries to this Bulletin Board have encountered with Mr. Tieger. It is a shame that many expert plumbers do not respond to inquiries such as yours simply because they do not want to be the target of insults hurled by Sylvan. Sylvan is a very accomplished person when it comes to plumbing issues, but his interpersonal skills suck when he disagrees with the responses submitted. The insults hurled by him do not always make his opinions right. They just reveal his insecurities, and his inability to stay focused on the problem at hand.
My goal in responding to inquiries is to answer the questions to the best of my ability, and I do not submit responses unless I am absolutely sure that I can be of some assistance. I simply ignore his self-important attitude, and ignore his insults, recognizing that most intelligent people can identify his peculiar personality. At least he does not use profane language, unlike that ignorant pig, Hobart Mendoza.
That said, lets address your dilemma. In your original inquiry you stated the following:
>I have a sump pump in my basement that has the bathroom sink, shower and washing machine draining into it.<
Well, the flows from these plumbing fixtures are considered sewage. These flows are generally referred to as greywater, but they do contain varying amounts of organic matter. The odors that you are smelling are a product of the anaerobic microbial digestion of organic matter in the sewage. So the answer to your question regarding the necessity of venting the sump pump pit is yes. It is necessary if you do not wish to continue smelling these foul odors.
Measure the exact dimensions of the opening of the concrete sump pump pit, and visit a local plumbing supply store to search for a plastic lid for this application. Explain to the professional at the store the problem that you are trying to solve. This expert will search the catalogs for the appropriate lid, gaskets, and grommets required, and may instruct you as to the proper procedure for installation.
Alternatively, contact a Licensed Master Plumber to complete the job if you do not feel that you have the skills to perform the required plumbing, and electrical work.
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In reply to message posted by DFM1:
I have a sump pump in my basement that has the bathroom sink, shower and washing machine draining into it. I have a smell coming out of there that is mainly noticed when anything dumps into it. I looked at installing a cover for it, but the pump is sitting up off the floor by about a foot or so. If the pump were covered would that take care of the smell? I have built a wooden case to enclose it, to no avail. Please help!!!!!!!
Since you did not include a toilet in this sump installation, there really should be no smells as your dealing with waste not soil (fecal matter).
John saying you “need a vent” is partially true BUT John never said you have to consider developed length and fixture units connected to actually size the vent piping.
About your sump being a concrete pit that kind sir is one of the better systems used for drainage as only the non knowing folks looking for a fast cheap job would use toxic plastic tanks as they just don’t know better.
You can have a steel cover made over these types of pits with great results but the root of the smell should be addressed 1st like possible having a disinfectant put in the pit like bleach to sit over night to kill any bacteria that maybe lurking in it.
You may also consider having your drain lines water jetted clean to remove years of crud build up as snaking will not scour the lines clean but only bore a small hole through a possible soft obstruction.
You should also think about the type of sealer you do use on the pit cover and leave an access cover to allow removal of the pump when it does give up the ghost or when the impeller needs servicing.
Hobart Mendoza I must say you sir are a real slob and I really doubt you are a plumber I think your more out house class of mechanics as least your mouth should be used to suck out cess pools sir.
SylvanLMP -
John,Maybe you should have left the other replies on and let Sylvan read what the others had to say about him.Maybe he wouldnt be so pompous and such a smart ass.Ifor one had to agree with what was said about him.
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I have to agree with Harry.Let”s see if Sylvan can take the heat.He sure knows how to dish it out.He had his say,now let the others have theirs.How about it SylvanRE YOU A MAN OR A MOUSE? Squeak up
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DFM1, I am sure that the odors that you are smelling are not imaginary or we would not be having this conversation. As I have stated the foul odors are produced by anaerobic microbial digestion of organic matter (not necessarily fecal matter) in the sewage flowing into the sump pump pit. It is possible to temporarily mitigate the odor problem with the use of a disinfectant, but the odors will soon return when the disinfectant is pumped out of the sump pump pit or the disinfectant evaporates, and the naturally occurring bacteria repopulate, and continue to digest the organic matter in the pit.
A thorough cleaning of the sump pump pit is a good idea, but water jetting the drain pipes is probably a waste of time and money (a large pile of money) if there is no problem with the fixtures properly draining.
I suspect that a steel lid could be fabricated to cover the sump pump pit, and it would serve your purposes quite well. You could even drive a pickup truck over it if you desired. I would imagine that the cost of fabrication of a steel lid specifically designed to meet your needs would exceed $200. A plastic cover, commonly manufactured for this purpose, will also serve your needs quite well, and may cost as much as $20. Typically, plastic sump pump pit covers are installed on the sump pump pits in millions of new homes in this country every year. I doubt that very many steel covers are used.
Mr. Tieger could have provided a real service if he would have revealed the required size of the vent pipe. I suspect that each fixture connected to the sump pump pit is adequately served with its own vent, so the only fixture to be considered in this application is the sump pump itself. The vent pipe size installed on my 1/2hp. sump pump is 2 inches.
Harry and RJ, the purpose of this Bulletin Board is to answer questions, and assist those in need in solving Drainage and Sewerage problems. I am sure that DFM1 cares little about the pomposity of Sylvan Tieger. If you wish to contribute to the success of the Bulletin Board, and if you guys are plumbers, then why not positively respond to the inquiries posted and share your knowledge. Just ignore the rantings of guys like Sylvan. Many of Sylvan’s responses are very helpful. Nothing will be gained by engaging in name-calling and insults.
» This message has been edited by John Aldrich on 15 November 2001
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John Been a plumber for 33 years.Never posted here before.The reason being because of Sylvans snide remarks.Maybe things will change.I think you will see more plumbers posting if Sylvan keeps himself under control.Ithink he has got the picture.Maybe he should make amends.
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Quote:In reply to message posted by Hobart Mendoza:
Hey Sylvan you sold out you know john is a ****ing loser and most of these AH have no clue to being a real plumber.I cannot believe you “prophylactic” including you SylvanLMP allow this kind of bull FECAL MATTER postings to continue.
Out of all the swinging ta dums on here I thought you would atleast back me up you anus.(Sorry H.M. I had to fix it for Quality control)
Wow Mr. Mendoza thank you so much (I think)
Yes, this list is full of wanna be journeymen BUT they sort of missed the mark it does appear.
Like Johns posting “As I have stated the foul odors are produced by anaerobic microbial digestion of organic matter [not necessarily fecal matter) in the sewage flowing into the sump pump pit.
He is great at confusing folks but a real plumber knows anaerobic means without oxygen and in this case the sump pit is not air tight.
Also Mr. Mendoza I have to admit I like your honesty in telling it the way you see it.VERY REFRESHING I must admit
You happen to be right a lot of the “USA” guys have no real clue to proper sizing of a vent pipe as John stated 2″ BUT he fails to think about is this 2″ good for twenty feet or 200 Ft
What about the rationale that each GPM flow rate is also considered a Fixture unit.
Yup Mr. Mendoza your are really refreshing in your thoughts as you do speak what you think,
BUT considering this is a mixed group I feel you should please send me all the E mail you want and call me.
These pet names personally as being a Nam vet I was called a lot worse things when I came back home by my fellow Americans like Hanoi Jane and her followers.
You remind me of the E- 9 I used to hang with same foul mouth and I got used to it then so you really made me miss the old days even more.
I have my own Master plumbers list and I would certainly consider it an honor to have you sign on. I AM VERY SERIOUS please E mail me privately as I like to have a difference of opinions expressed and you happen to be right about many of these folks having no clue to being “technical”
In this country almost anyone can do drain cleaning or even plummin without any formal training.
IM very serious Hobart please feel free to E mail me and ILL be more then happy to sign you up on my list, your honesty is really refreshing and you could care less about being “politically correct”
Notice how John keeps pushing prices and NEVER Quality. He would drop dead knowing I buy Mercedes rather then a Yugo as to him PRICE is everything. He would drop dead if he knows my top “mechanic” I pay over $45 per hr IN THE ENVELOPE not including benifits NOT to bad for a non union guy huh?
But John likes Cheap so he could never afford my higher pricesToo bad guys like John never read green peace and learn how toxic plastic is BUT his kind of mentality or lack of is why stumblebum plumbers do use plastic when given a choice with soil conditions.
Oh well Mr. Mendoza what can we do to educate the non educated handyman mentality of piping guys.
Thankfully Home depot is making record breaking profits from selling to do it yourselfers.
Personally I think every single home owner who is contemplating doing a job in “plastic” seriously think about doing it themselves, You do not have to use a “plumber” to install plastic piping systems MOST if not all home centers are willing to sell you a how to book.
Next time a so called plumber comes knocking on your door ask what formal training they have and ask to see the Masters license,
See John even admitted he is not a plumber but he dabbled in plastic goes to show you huh that ANYONE can do it maybe not right but they install things so why shouldn’t the home owners try it also?
Mr. Mendoza hope to hear from you really soon. Guy you make me laugh May God Bless You sir
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SylvanLMP -
In reply to message posted by Harry:
John,Maybe you should have left the other replies on and let Sylvan read what the others had to say about him.Maybe he wouldnt be so pompous and such a smart ass.Ifor one had to agree with what was said about him.
You go Harry I love your wit and your posted Qualifications. Your honestly is really refreshing guy.
Yup Harry your input is fantastic, did you think this up all by yourself?
You da man Harry At least Hobart makes some sense, possibly Harry you should try posting something you may know about DUH.
SylvanLMP -
In reply to message posted by R J:
I have to agree with Harry.Let”s see if Sylvan can take the heat.He sure knows how to dish it out.He had his say,now let the others have theirs.How about it SylvanRE YOU A MAN OR A MOUSE? Squeak up
RJ I have to AGREE with Mr. Mendoza about how YOUR one of the guys who take Knowledge BUT never could you offer anyone advice.
You know your limitations and thus stay in the back ground knowing YOUR never going to be able to even offer advice.
At least with my postings even being “pompous” I get folks to think out side of the box WHAT have you ever given to any list?
What sound advice have you even tried to offer?
What qualifications does YOUR mechanic have that is trying to train you to be a better helper so you can think on your own instead of being a parrot?
Thankfully you do know you cant offer any plumbing or drainage advice and thus at least you know your place in a technical field.
So RJ just you keep leaching off us real mechanics and one day you may learn something you can pass on to others.
One thing guys like RJ dont know John and I agree to disagree BUT we both offer some advice in our postings and my advice to you RJ is to try to learn to think for yourself .
Harry is one heck of a real professional as you can tell how he hides his non qualifications so any advice he/she gives is to be taken lighly guy.
Learn to stand on your own kid it may help you grow into a semi skilled mechanic
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In reply to message posted by John Aldrich:
DFM1, I recommend that you install a plastic sump pump pit which has a gas tight cover, and rubber gaskets on all of the electrical and plumbing ports. The odorous gasses must be vented into the house vent system.
Dear John, ( I always wanted to say that) The reason I don’t care for “plastic” as a top on most sump applications is they are normally made very cheap (thin) and do lose its shape from the hot water that can be found in sumps that receive the discharge from washing machines.
About your posting that the drains do not need to be water jetted is a big mistake as drainage from washing machines do get deposits from soap scum build up and over a period of time the internal diameter does get reduced.
By using a water Jetter even every 4 years you can restore piping to full flow something that cannot be done with just snaking or useless chemicals.
Now the reason I and many other legitimate contractors do charge more for jetting is the equipment does cost a lot more.
Also to properly Jet a line takes time much, much longer then simple snaking.Snaking removes hard stoppages like roots or rags but jetting is ideal for soft stoppages like grease and other build up deposits on piping walls.
Now for a point of information.
My “regular” jobbing mechanics make over $1,200 per 35 HR week just in the envelope not including bennies
My top guy makes $45 per HR IN THE ENVELOPE and time and a half anything over 35 hours.
So yes I do have to charge a lot to cover their salary plus my office staff and my salary and my over head.
You must realize that labor is expensive and materials are cheap in comparison to man hours so having cheap materials fail makes no sense to me what so ever.
I have to pity the poor bum contractors who steal from other people by having employees working for very cheap prices and the employee can never hope to have a decent home or new car every two or three years or send their kids to better schools.
John thankfully I am able to charge the right price and not play lets make a deal when it comes to quality in workmanship and materials.
I use plastic sumps when conditions warrant but not as a cost factor.
Certain acids I can not use other materials but plastic Or an acid crock made of pottery is just not feasible in some locations
I feel that plastic should not be allowed in side a structure and used only in drainage applications where Cast Iron is not advisable due to soil conditions.
I still install cast Iron and steel sumps and even cement basins with diamond back steel covers.
Quality in mechanics is what separates us from 5th world countries.
Thankfully given a choice most folks when educated will go for quality and pay higher prices knowing the quality of life means something.
Even the manufacturers of Cast Iron and plastic suggest CI for drainage (quiet long lasting) and plastic for venting and cheaper applications.
Again I will say it I think every single home owner if they are so poor as to not to be able to afford better safer materials in their home they really should try to install plastic piping themselves BUT they should get a local code book 1st to follow local codes.
John IM still glad we can agree to totally disagree as it sure makes this postings come alive. Have a great one SylvanLMP
SylvanLMP -
SYLVAN Are you a schizo? Earlier you were bad mouthing Mr.Mendoza,now you want him to join your list.Step back and re-group guy.At least remember from one lie to the next. Iwas asked by you to join your pipdl list and did so,got tired of hearing about you and how great you were ,so I left.You are full of so much B.S. Sylvan I know you personally and I know what you are all about,come on man straighten out.
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SYLVAN I must be pretty good ,you invited me to join your PIPDL,which I did and still am a member.TSK TSK MR.so called king of the roof drains and sewer jetters ,the jokes on you . Or is that guru instead of king. Dont forget to squeak up,bozo
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“Mr. Mendoza hope to hear from you really soon. Guy you make me laugh May God Bless You sir”
Hey man were you serious about your list or just bull shitting me?
I would really like to join.
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