- This topic has 13 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 23 years, 8 months ago by
SylvanLMP.
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Albert Godfrey
I have gutted a house, built a new basement and need to install all plumbing aspects. Is there a book or computer program that will help with installing new plumbing?
Appreciate any help.
MDN -
What do you do for a living? Is there a book or computer program that will make me an instant expert in it? Designing and installing a plumbing system that will pass an inspection, not cause structural damage to the building, not have constant minor problems and, last for the life of the house is something that can be done in a few minutes on an old napkin. If it were, plumbers would not be going to school for 5 years, they could buy a computer program and be instant experts. Or as one person asked me, “You did not wake up one morning and decide to be a plumber, did you? Then why are you so hard on DIY’ers?” My answer was that, “No, I didn’t decide to be a plumber one morning, but that is exactly what the Do-it-yourself person is trying to do.”
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You are one of the rudest people I have ever heard from. If you aren’t interested in helping people, THEN GET OFF the site. I have someone who is doing the plumbing AND knows how, he just needs a little help. And if all plumbers are as hatefule as you, I wouldn’t hire one.
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mdn39, in my view, fourth year is giving you very sound advice, and is not in the least being rude. If you do not like the message, don’t kill the messenger.
I am not a plumber, but I replaced all of the plumbing in my very old house 20 years ago. I design and install septic systems, and thought that I had the ability to glue the pipes together for my plumbing system, and maybe save a few bucks. Well, that was a mistake.
I obtained a couple of Do-It-Yourself plumbing primers, and studied them before I started the installation of the new plumbing system. I followed the advice of the so called experts that wrote these books, to the letter. I found that some of the instructions were in conflict with each other, so I chose the option that seemed to be most logical to me.
Upon inspection, the plumbing inspector red tagged the job because it did not meet the codes in force in my local area. It is the nature of building inspectors to enforce the plumbing codes very strictly, and nitpick if they find a few obvious major errors in the plumbing job installed by the nonprofessional.
I then hired a Licensed Master Plumber to correct the errors that I had made. The cost of the professional plumber to redo the drain system, was almost as much as if I would have hired him to do the work initially. The cost of the plumbing material is insignificant compared to the cost of the knowledge to properly install it. I have found this axiom to be true in the field of septic system installation.
You can purchase books on basic plumbing from outlets like Home Depot, but understand that these books may give you directions that are in violation of local codes. If you follow these directions, you could be replacing much of the plumbing system after it is inspected.
Well, that is my opinion, and opinions are like bellybuttons, everyone has one. :>) JWA
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MDN39 If you think that fourth year is rude,you better hope that Sylvan doesn’t answer your question.I always find it amusing when I go to see a home that a homeowner did himself.It confirms that I am a professional.
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MDN39 I have been a Master Plumber for 32 years and it always costs more to repair someones screw ups than it would have to hire a plumber to do the job right the first time .
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quote:
Originally posted by mdn39:
I have gutted a house, built a new basement and need to install all plumbing aspects. Is there a book or computer program that will help with installing new plumbing?
Appreciate any help.
MDN
Today with the apprenticeship training failing and almost anyone can get a Master plumbers license with NO formal education in plumbing and there is no more brazing only soldering and “glue” the ART and skill requirements are no longer required on New construction residential homes one family in a lot of area’s
For a joke I once taught my daughter who at 5 years old was able to solder copper tubing with 95-5 solder and make leak proof joints.
The requirements for “master Plumber” in some localities require someone with a check book NO testing is required in some areas.
Rather then having an apprentice Or a really non skilled stumble bum plumber in your home I would strongly suggest you are better off trying it yourself.
Today with plastic piping and great how to books and very easy to read and understand books by writers like Howard Massey and Time life and Home Depot offering classes in most of the areas you may find it safer for your family to DIY
Why pay an apprentice who by law cannot work alone in “plumbing” in your home so why waste your money having these yo yo’s learning off your back?
If you get a local code book the venting is not that hard to understand actually if you send me a private E mail ILL be happy to explain proper venting (Wet venting is for losers who don’t know any better the same with NON pro vents)
I would be happy to give you a material list like galvanized 3/8 threaded rod to use with clevis hangers for your piping supports on the horizontal and how to size your piping by fixture units.
A lot of the real incompetent folks out dabbling in plummmin use band iron for piping supports so the home owner HAS TO be able to do a better job THEY sure as hell cant do worse.
Find out from your local building department if you are allowed to repipe your own home.
You do not need to know why a fresh air inlet is used all you care about is the proper location (with in 4 feet of the building house trap if local codes require it)
You could careless what hoarfrost is all you need to know to put a vent terminal 4″ dia through your roof.
Soldering should take you a good 7 minutes to master and plastic piping is geared for a 2nd grade level reading level to understand.
In all honesty I KNOW the average home owner can and will do a much better job then some of the “master plumbers” I have seen upstate.
You see as a home owner you want you want the job done right, Home owners will follow manufacturers directions not CUT CORNERS
If your using plastic piping and type L copper tubing go for it yourself and do go to a home center for a few hints of the trade.
Plumbing a one family home is a joke with lax codes and very easy to understand directions as for installing of piping systems. LEAVE the gas to a Master and make sure the LMP is on the job NOT some idiot he/she sends ASK for the LICENSE
Under no circumstances allow a “helper”/ apprentice in your home ASK to see the masters license. No license then don’t let them in.
Most junior high school kids today can plumb a new home quite easily.
The math skill are not as complicated for anyone with a 3rd grade education to master single family piping sizing.
Don’t let anyone scare you.
Doing your own plumbing installations can be fun and very rewarding and knowing you did it Properly rather then letting a stumble bum in your home is well worth the effort on your part.
Not for nothing BUT I laid out a plumbing for a woman who never did plumbing in her life she and her daughter installed a complete bathroom with not only soldering all the copper water supply lines BUT she and her daughter installed cast Iron for the waste and vent piping.
I even went to the Sisters of Charity at the College of Mt Saint Vincent in the Bronx New York and this Sister installed a cast Iron bath tub with another nuns help.
I just inspected this job to make sure it was up to code and right there and then I offered both nuns a job BUT they said they work for a higher boss.
Plumbing today is a simple trade not like just a few years ago.
Have your family help you as it can honestly be a lot of fun.
Using plastic even a simpleton can be a hero, look at the bums using it now for one family housing where they can use a much better quality product BUT choose not to
as they have the cheap get in get out make a killing mind set.Have a great one and feel free to E mail me .
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It was not meant to be rude, just realistic. I have bid on two houses lately where the owner did their own piping. In both cases the floor was already poured and they had already installed the above floor piping. The jobs were rejected by the inspectors. The piping was so poorly done that the only solution would have been to cut the pipes off above the floor, but couplings on them and start over. One problem was that the pipes in the floor were not in the correct places for the plumbing which had to be done so there was a bit of concrete breaking and offsetting to do. Also since new holes had to be drilled, the structure had a lot of unnecessary openings in it. Finally since the underfloor piping could not be seen, the homeowners did not get any kind of guarantee as to its integrity or proper operation.
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I had to break off, so now I will continue. The diagrams in the books are concepts. Your plumbing may be able to be installed according to the picture, but then again it may have to be modified, or revising the concept might give you a better installation. The design of your house will determine the best plumbing system, and if you had 5 plumbers design it you would get 5 different designs. I learned in the first day on the job that sewage flows down hill and payday is Friday. I have spent the past 50 years refining those concepts. And to be even ruder, if your plumber needs Internet help to plumb a residence, you may have the wrong plumber.
“Stop five minutes before you reach your level of incompetence and you will not create a problem that is unsolvable.” -
Fourth year makes an excellant observation regarding your “plumber” who’s doing the work for you. Like Fourth year states: If the plumber needs to go to the internet for help, then maybe you should look for another plumber. But more than likely, he’s probably a buddy who’s done a little plumbing and has offered to replumb the house for you. PLumbing is considered by those who offer their advice to this and other websites a job, profession, a fulltime occupation, a career, take your pick. It’s not a hobby.
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Sylvan, You silly,silly old timer.The last time I saw 3/8 threaded rod on a residential job was because the plumber stole it off a commercial job.You need to learn to seperate commercial from residential.With your way of thinking we would all be driving a 1 ton truck.Why would anyone drive a 1/2 ton truck?You talk about the price of no hub being almost the same as modern plastic,you must be reading a 1970’s flier.I can buy a 3″ pvc y for $2.75,Can you buy a 3″ no hub fitting for that price?Lets not forget about the 2 or 3 no hub couplings you need for each fitting.You must get those for free!!You talk alot about the ease of doing plastic pipe.I have found that no hub is much easier than plastic.With no hub you can always adjust your fittings and pipe.PVC is very unforgiving.I think that like alot of other old timers you tried plastic pipe and failed miserably.Don’t give up old timer,old dogs can be taught new tricks!!
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I wonder if “BOB” will come to your rescue on this one!!
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Hey all you people,
forget I ever wrote, and I’ll forget that you all think everybody is a moron and isn’t capable of doing something unless he’s “certified”. I know lots of people who are certified at things, but that doesn’t make them good at it. Good bye, see ya -
quote:
Originally posted by Wallingford Plm+Htg:
Sylvan, You silly,silly old timer.The last time I saw 3/8 threaded rod on a residential job was because the plumber stole it off a commercial jobOh your code book says use band Iron?
Your the BRAIN dead type that think homes should be installed with CRAP rather then longivity in Quality materials.
I honestly thought we had PLUMBERS on here not Home center drop outs
.You need to learn to seperate commercial from residential< WOW
WHY??? Dont all folks deserve Quality Possibly YOU like living in substandard conditions BUT most folks care about their investment GOD
your one sick puppy.With your way of thinking we would all be driving a 1 ton truck.Why would anyone drive a 1/2 ton truck?
HEY GB kid I only have Heavy duty vans B 350’s as I rather go slightly over kill then BOTTOM line like you seem to thrive on
You talk about the price of no hub being almost the same as modern plastic,you must be reading a 1970’s flier.
No
foolish KID Im talking OVERALL Quality and longivity DUHI can buy a 3″ pvc y for $2.75,Can you buy a 3″ no hub fitting for that price?Lets not forget about the 2 or 3 no hub couplings you need for each fitting.You must get those for free!!You talk alot about the ease of doing plastic pipe.I have found that no hub is much easier than plastic.With no hub you can always adjust your fittings and pipe
This AGAIN shows your doing STUMBLE BUM PLUMMMIN if you cant read a ruler by now. You pull plastic couplings also huh?
The beauty of Cast Iron is QUIET long lasting SAFE systems
.PVC is very unforgiving.I think that like alot of other old timers you tried plastic pipe and failed miserably.Don’t give up old timer,old dogs can be taught new tricks!!
Excuse my BOY child I used plastic in the very early 70s Schedule 80 for chlorine for large swimming pools and cooling tower applications.
I used Plastic piping systems for acid systems under pressures/temperatures far exceeding anything you have ever thought of
If you learned how to read you would have seen articles of me
defending the use of “plastic” for the RIGHT application, not because it is CHEAPI must tell you in all seriousness and all kidding aside
You have to be one if not the most incompetent
folks to every come on this list.I have met some really dumb folks on here professing to know plumbing BUT you are without any doubt in my mind the WORST of the worst. Im MY professional opinion your a loser and will never ever be a “plumber”
I pity anyone who you work for and I especailly feel so very sorry for any helper that watches you dabble in this profession.
If there is any code officals in your area they should be fired for allowing YOU and your type to even call yourself a “plumber”
You sir are better off hiding behind a phoney name as you will Never be a plumber by any stretch of the imagination I can imagine how your “heating” looks like if this is your attitude regarding plumbing
Thankfully my employees know what I expect out of them and I pay for Knowledge. If it is good enough for commerical as you call it then by all means it is good enough for all my accounts.
stay with your “manufactured” home clients and keep working as cheap as possible using the cheapiest material money can buy
and some day I hope you move in a home that some half wit like you built.Give up plumbing guy,seriously YOU just dont know how to do it right.
Your wasting your time
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