Wax gasket maintinence?????

[Kenneth Benner]

Do you “maintain” a wax gasket for a toilet??? Is it a plumbing fixture or part of the pipe?? What are the vertical elements of the waste plumbing system?? What are the lateral connections and the lateral connections to the vertical elements of the waste plumbing sytem? Or if it leaks undetected under the subfloor is this water damage caused by a plumbing leak??? Thanks!!!null

[nicktheplumberParticipant]

[/B]Do you “maintain” a wax gasket for a toilet???
–No. You do not “maintain” the wax gasket. You just install it correctly. A correctly installed wax gasket should last for MANY years. I’ve replaced toilets that have been seated on perfectly functional wax rings for DECADES…

Is it a plumbing fixture or part of the pipe??
–It is not, by definition, a “fixture.” I guess you could say it is a “fitting,” a part of the pipe system, just as valve, flange, or compression fitting would be.

What are the vertical elements of the waste plumbing system??
–vent and drainage “stacks,” closet bends, etc.

What are the lateral connections and the lateral connections to the vertical elements of the waste plumbing sytem?
–These are any of the more or less horizontal runs of drain pipe connected to the entire DWV system. Some of these horizontal pipe runs include so-called “wet vents” and “re-vents.”

Or if it leaks undetected under the subfloor is this water damage caused by a plumbing leak???
–Unless the moisture comes from a roof leak or someone spilling water on the floor, you may assume that there is a leak in the DWV or water supply plumbing.

Thanks!!!null[/QUOTE]

You’re welcome.

NtP

[plumbingParticipant]

Just to be clear the waste plumbing system and the water supply plumbing are 2 seperate systems??
And, is the toilet flange a lateral connection of the waste plumbing system, part of the vertical waste plumbing system, or a connection between the vertical elements and the laterals themselves?? So, the toilet flange is a fitting to which, the lateral or vertical waste plumbing system. Thanks!!!

[racefanoneParticipant]

St.Louis,Mo, my foot.How are things in the Big Apple?

[nicktheplumberParticipant]

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In reply to message posted by plumbing:
Just to be clear the waste plumbing system and the water supply plumbing are 2 seperate systems??
–Now I am beginning that you are pulling our collective legs…(these are considered vertical elements when standing and horizontal when lying down…) But your post does raise interesting and profound philosophical questions about the nature of plumbing itself. In my opinion the essense of plumbing is the concept of the “pipe.” Such pipes contain either water or air. Some are in constant continuity with the atmosphere (i.e. “vents”) and others are not (i.e. supply lines). Supply lines may be open to the atmosphere, but only at certain points (e.g. a “faucet”) when water under pressure is released through a device called a “valve.” Some of the pipes contain clean water of different temperature (hot and cold supply lines). Others serve to conduct water that has been emptied into fixtures (by the supply lines) and used for some purpose that renders the used water more or less “dirty.” This used water is referred to as “waste” water and is carried by so called “drain” or “waste” pipes. Because of the need to keep harmful sewer gases from entering the house (or other structure wherein plumbing fixtures are located), an ingenious device called a “trap” has been created. these “traps” employ a water seal to block gases from entering the structure. In order to function properly, such traps require “vent” piping (a part of the drainage system) that is in continuity with the atmosphere that surrounds the structure and each an every one of us the world over.

Now, to answer your question of whether or not the waste and supply pipes are part of the “same” system or are fundamentally different… My opinion, and you must appreciate that this is but my humble opinion, is that they are different and indeed separate. Fot there is indeed no continuous physical connection between the two. In other words, there is no “pipe” that directly connects the two. The connection is made only by the water that drains from the former into the latter, through an interval space (e.g. between faucet and drain) that is made of nothing but intervening air…

To put it in another way, the waste and supply lines are indeed separate, yet “separate but equal.” They are the yin and the yang, the left and the right hands, the male and the female, and like these other differences, they make a whole, and the one cannot exist without the other. Yes, they are different, but as the French (who are otherwise useless except for a few bon mots) have commented, “Viva la difference…”

And, is the toilet flange a lateral connection of the waste plumbing system, part of the vertical waste plumbing system, or a connection between the vertical elements and the laterals themselves?? So, the toilet flange is a fitting to which, the lateral or vertical waste plumbing system. Thanks!!!

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I believe I have answered your question.

NtP

[plumbingParticipant]

I am trying to decipher the semantics of our condo association by-laws, which use the above mentioned language to discriminate between the owner’s and the association’s responsibility for payment of the leak. Our by-laws only refer to the waste plumbing system and its lateral and vertical elements with another section on plumbing fixtures. The attorney deemed the flange and toilet seal (as he referred to the wax gasket) a plumbing fixture, and went further to comment that we need to “maintain” these elements. I completely disagreed and if I learned one thing from graduate school it was to research topics that are unfamiliar. Unlike the attorney in this case and yes many St. Louisians who take it upon themselves to make judgements and decisions without evidence, research or expert advice, I am trying to increase my knowledge of plumbing (which I had no previous knowledge), in order to make my decisions and increase my understanding of the by-laws. I wish I was trying to be philosophical regarding plumbing, however, I just don’t want to get screwed??!!!

So here is the complete section.
Maintenance, repairs and repleacements of the lateral sewer lines from the Building to the main trunk swerer and of the vertical elements of the waste plumbing system shall be furnished by the Association as part of the Common Expenses. Maintenance, reparis and replacements of the interior lateral connections of the waste plumbing system of each Unit, including the connections between the vertical elements and the laterals themselves, shall be at the expense of each respective Unit Owner.

So what am I responsible for?????????????????????/

Very true response about St. Louis people, no I am not orginally from St. Louis. Please get me out as soon as possible!!!!

» This message has been edited by plumbing on 23 May 2003

[nicktheplumberParticipant]

Quote:

I am trying to decipher the semantics of our condo association by-laws, which use the above mentioned language to discriminate between the owner’s and the association’s responsibility for payment of the leak.

So here is the complete section.
Maintenance, repairs and repleacements of the lateral sewer lines from the Building to the main trunk swerer and of the vertical elements of the waste plumbing system shall be furnished by the Association as part of the Common Expenses. Maintenance, reparis and replacements of the interior lateral connections of the waste plumbing system of each Unit, including the connections between the vertical elements and the laterals themselves, shall be at the expense of each respective Unit Owner.

So what am I responsible for?????????????????????/

It sounds like you are responsible for ANY pipes and fixtures that are WITHIN the walls your dwelling and whose use is not shared by other households in your association (such as common waste pipes). By that definition, you are responsible for your leaky toilet (whether from the tank, bowl, flange, or even the closet bend beneath the bowl…just so long as no one else’s wastewater flows through that section of pipe) AND the pipes are within the building. If this is a multi-unit building, it seems that the condo owners and not the HA are responsible.

NtP

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