- This topic has 10 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 23 years, 9 months ago by
Wallingford Plm+Htg.
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MasterPlumbers
Hi, I am installing a ceramic tile floor in my 2nd bathroom, and I had to remove the toilet. My question is, there was a plastic toilet mounting ring with what looks like a lead flanged pipe inside it. I had to bend the lead flange to remove the ring(the new floor will be at a different height than the old one). How do I replce/re-install the lead flanged fitiing. Is it attached to the toilet drain??
Help!
thanks in advance,
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The flange is supposed to be attached to the pipe. Otherwise there is no seal to prevent leakage in case of a backup. Obviously there is no proper way to connect lead and plastic so someone has done a “make do” installation in the past. You should have a brass flange, and solder it to the lead pipe, and then secure the flange to the floor to prevent movement.
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quote:
Originally posted by Walter Sobchak:
Hi, I am installing a ceramic tile floor in my 2nd bathroom, and I had to remove the toilet. My question is, there was a plastic toilet mounting ring with what looks like a lead flanged pipe inside it. I had to bend the lead flange to remove the ring(the new floor will be at a different height than the old one). How do I replce/re-install the lead flanged fitiing. Is it attached to the toilet drain??Help!
thanks in advance,
Easiest professional Legal fix is as follows
Clean the inside of the existing bend very carefully and form the upper most 2″ or 3″ of this lead pipe into a cup (socket)
Then take a piece of lead “D” pipe which weights 2 times the diameter 4″ lead pipe 8 pounds per ft etc.
Carefully clean the new lead pipe on the outside and flux both the inside and out side of these sections.
Get a ladle and Flemco warranted bar solder and without over heating this alloy and carefully pour this solder into the cup until the joint is full.
Wait 45 seconds and watch a perfect joint appear stronger then the base metal.
This sir is called a cup joint and works.
PRACTICE on scrap lead 1st BE careful.
You just saved yourself over $225.00 for about a half hours ART work
Then on top of the plain piece of lead you can “solder” a new brss floor flange using the solder that is left or use another bar of cheaper solder.
[Edited by SylvanLMP on 17 March 2001] -
Are you guys telling Walter that there’s a brass flange adapter that will secure to the floor like a “normal” flange, complete with the studs for mounting the toilet, and also connect to the lead flange, with just a little bit of soldering?
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quote:
Originally posted by ThisOldHouse:
Are you guys telling Walter that there’s a brass flange adapter that will secure to the floor like a “normal” flange, complete with the studs for mounting the toilet, and also connect to the lead flange, with just a little bit of soldering?
No sir what I am saying is soldering a cup joint is stronger then the base metal (lead) as flemco # 1 is 40-60 which contains 40% tin. This alloy has a lower melting temperature then 50 50 or 60 40 tin lead solders.
Once this joint is filled with solder the stub piece of lead can then be cut down and a brass floor flange can be properly soldered on and anchored to the floor.
The cup joint is less complicated then lap welding or lead burning or even lead wiping.
There is another way but that is CHEATING and only Fraud plumbing and heating would do it
The cheating way is taking a piece of plastic pipe and forcing it into the lead pipe as far down as it will go this is a VERY tight fit
Then get a a No hub cast Iron floor flange and attach it to the out side of the lead pipe.
What this does is a make a leak proof connection with the plastic giving the soft lead strength.
The other option s to use a cheapo plastic type floor flange glue it to the plastic pipe sticking slightly above the existing lead pipe and then anchoring this flange to the cement-tile floor.
Using a deep seal wax gasket horn type there will be no chance of spillage when flushing as the horn is inside the drain pipe even in case of a stoppage.
A lot of old time roofers and stumble bum plumbers used copper inserts in roof drains when they wanted to cut costs or replacing the cast iron or copper bowls.
Everything worked perfectly until there was a stoppage and the leader lines filled up and water went under the sleeve and under the roofing membrane and caused extensive damage below.
There are other ways to screw around with lead piping that will work BUT why give away all the little jobbing secretes.
The cup joint is strong and legal and the plastic insert will last for many years as it is prorected with a lead outer shell.
When replacing a floor flange becomes a challange is when it is screwed onto a 4″ galvanized drainage line.
But thats another chapter
[Edited by SylvanLMP on 17 March 2001] -
There was such a flange when I worked in Chicago. Since then I have not even seen a lead bend, but I would assume it is still made since that is the proper way to terminate a lead bend and still have a watertight seal to the toilet.
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Because I appreciate your help: When I cut the lead bend out of my house, I’ll put it in a box and ship it to you… I don’t want you to forget what they look like. To make sure it doesn’t melt down in transit, I’ll wrap it in asbestos. I’ll protect it from breaking by surrounding it with plastic shavings from all the new pipe I install, and just to be sure it’s safe, I’ll seal the box with ABS cement. I’ll even write your address using lead-based paint!
By the way, what’s the life expectancy of a plumber these days?
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The most effective thing to do is remove the lead bend and adapt to pvc pipe and fittings. I have removed at least 10 lead bends in the last 4 months and I can tell you I have had no problems with any of these installations.
[Edited by Moderator on 20 March 2001] -
Most of us have good health and life expectency. Probably because we build up immunities to everything due to the environment we work in.
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Quote:Originally posted by ThisOldHouse:
Because I appreciate your help: When I cut the lead bend out of my house, I’ll put it in a box and ship it to you… I don’t want you to forget what they look like. To make sure it doesn’t melt down in transit, I’ll wrap it in asbestos. I’ll protect it from breaking by surrounding it with plastic shavings from all the new pipe I install, and just to be sure it’s safe, I’ll seal the box with ABS cement. I’ll even write your address using lead-based paint!< GREAT posting LOLOLOLNISOH would be proud of you.,
By the way, what’s the life expectancy of a plumber these days?
Not long if the customer find out you replaced good parts with crap materials
[Edited by Moderator on 21 March 2001]
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Anybody that does drain cleaning can tell a story about the time thier snake went through a lead pipe.Lead piping was great for the old timers who needed a little help in getting to where they needed to go.It must have been nice back then to have that much play in a pipe, let alone the fact that you didn’t have to install the pipe in the wall they would just build the wall around your work.I guess it’s a trade off for having to carry the cast iron tub up to the second floor by yourself after walking to work through 2 feet of snow with no shoes.
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