Electrolysis in copper pipes

[Jako Ebersohn]

Hello Plumbing Gurus, I have a problem that is driving me crazy. I have repaired a good half a dozen pinhole leaks in the copper pipes in my basement in the last year. To make matters worse, Ive just remodled and all the leaks were in the ceiling, requireing a lot of patch jobs. I had a plumber here awhile back and he said it was electrolysis. This is an older home (about 30 yrs. old), with the older style romex. Kind of a braided cloth covering. He says even if it just lays on a pipe, you will get electrolysis. Ive installed additional grounding straps (in the furnace/utility room) from the copper pipes to the supply line coming through the slab (full basement). Is this sufficient? Honestly, I havent checked the electrical grounding rod outside. (I live in Alaska,–snow) Is there a test to see if you have current coming through the copper pipes? Inside the pipes is a black hard residue encrusted on the sides. Please, please, please. If there is someone who could help me out I would be EXTREMELY greatful. Regards, Allan Sund

[Allan SundParticipant]

: Hello Plumbing Gurus, : I have a problem that is driving me crazy. I have repaired a good half a dozen pinhole leaks in the copper pipes in my basement in the last year. To make matters worse, Ive just remodled and all the leaks were in the ceiling, requireing a lot of patch jobs. I had a plumber here awhile back and he said it was electrolysis. This is an older home (about 30 yrs. old), with the older style romex. : Kind of a braided cloth covering. He says even if it just lays on a pipe, you will get electrolysis. Ive installed additional grounding straps (in the furnace/utility room) from the copper pipes to the supply line coming through the slab (full basement). : Is this sufficient? Honestly, I havent checked the electrical grounding rod outside. : (I live in Alaska,–snow) Is there a test to see if you have current coming through the copper pipes? Inside the pipes is a black hard residue encrusted on the sides. Please, : please, please. If there is someone who could help me out I would be EXTREMELY greatful. : Regards, Allan SundHELP

[Allan SundParticipant]

: : Hello Plumbing Gurus, : : I have a problem that is driving me crazy. I have repaired a good half a dozen pinhole leaks in the copper pipes in my basement in the last year. To make matters worse, Ive just remodled and all the leaks were in the ceiling, requireing a lot of patch jobs. I had a plumber here awhile back and he said it was electrolysis. This is an older home (about 30 yrs. old), with the older style romex. : : Kind of a braided cloth covering. He says even if it just lays on a pipe, you will get electrolysis. Ive installed additional grounding straps (in the furnace/utility room) from the copper pipes to the supply line coming through the slab (full basement). : : Is this sufficient? Honestly, I havent checked the electrical grounding rod outside. : : (I live in Alaska,–snow) Is there a test to see if you have current coming through the copper pipes? Inside the pipes is a black hard residue encrusted on the sides. Please, : : please, please. If there is someone who could help me out I would be EXTREMELY greatful. : : Regards, Allan Sund: HELPAlln, In Ohio we have the same problem, we attribute it to water with a high sulpher content (rotten egg smell). If this is your problem you have two choices,..a water conditioner or repipe with Aquapex (cross-linked polyethylene) or cpvc. The problem with the copper will persist…you will have to replace all of it to be able to sleep at night. We just repiped one last week, it was high-sulpher well water….good luck. pipewerks

[Allan SundParticipant]

Allan:–Pin hole leaks are a painful reality all over this Country and others as well. I am a Plumbing Contractor from Florida, and have discovered some very iteresting ways of dealing with this problem over the years. The Romex cable in your electrical wiring circuits has little to do with the formation of electrolytic corrosion cells within the Copper water distribution pipes. The facts are really quite simple…the water in your piping has the ability to carry (conduct) an electrical charge…There is a DC voltage source within your piping system. This DC voltage can be in the range of a few to a few hundred milivolts, in some instances over 2000 milivolts ( a milivolt is 1/1000th of a volt) This troublesome DC voltage can be produced because of numerous dissimilar metallic junctions within the piping system that is experiencing the pin hole phenomenon, or induced by external sources. The important thing to remember is that without this electrical activity there can be no leaching of Copper from the walls of the piping. It is equally true to say that without water that has this conductive ability, there would also be no electrolytic corrosion taking place. This is not a perfect world and seldom do we get the ideal scenario in any engineeing task. If you provide my office with your mailing address, I will see that you are sent some interesting and informative material on pin hole leaks and what options are available to deal with them…………Bud

[Allan SundParticipant]

Allan, you should also check to see what the pH of the water is before you go too far in investigating Electrolysis problems. Most of the time a copper plumbing system suffers pinhole leaks is because the pH is less than 7.0 or the Langlier Index is a negative number. To test the water, contact a local state certified laboratory that does drinking water analysis. Look in the yellow pages of your phone book under Laboratories:Testing. The Langlier Index is a better way to check how corrosive the water is compared to pH. You may also want to check with a local water treatment company regarding this problem to see if it is common to the area. You can visit http://www.wqa.org on the web for more info. Roger

[Allan SundParticipant]

: : : Hello Plumbing Gurus, : : : I have a problem that is driving me crazy. I have repaired a good half a dozen pinhole leaks in the copper pipes in my basement in the last year. To make matters worse, Ive just remodled and all the leaks were in the ceiling, requireing a lot of patch jobs. I had a plumber here awhile back and he said it was electrolysis. This is an older home (about 30 yrs. old), with the older style romex. : : : Kind of a braided cloth covering. He says even if it just lays on a pipe, you will get electrolysis. Ive installed additional grounding straps (in the furnace/utility room) from the copper pipes to the supply line coming through the slab (full basement). : : : Is this sufficient? Honestly, I havent checked the electrical grounding rod outside. : : : (I live in Alaska,–snow) Is there a test to see if you have current coming through the copper pipes? Inside the pipes is a black hard residue encrusted on the sides. Please, : : : please, please. If there is someone who could help me out I would be EXTREMELY greatful. : : : Regards, Allan Sund: : HELP: Alln, In Ohio we have the same problem, we attribute it to water with a high sulpher content (rotten egg smell). If this is your problem you have two choices,..a water conditioner or repipe with Aquapex (cross-linked polyethylene) or cpvc. The problem with the copper will persist…you will have to replace all of it to be able to sleep at night. We just repiped one last week, it was high-sulpher well water….good luck. pipewerksDEAR ALLAN it sounds like your piping has gone to that great place in the sky. bite the bullet and re pipe with non metallic pipe. have boiler treatment installed. and your probably allready using 50/50 antifreeze/water. this has been a message from northern british columbia

[Allan SundParticipant]

: : Allan:–I am a mechanical engineer and have a contracting firm in Cyprus. Very recently i have had a problem with a leak in cold water copper pipes. The pipes were tested at a pressure of 8 bar for almost 7 months without any leakes and suddenly we have what seems like a small crack in a 15mm pipe. Some people think that it was caused buy corrosion with ammonia based products induced into the cement. What do you think? please note that the building is not yet completed and no electricity is connected to it. : I will be most gratefull of any help in unerstanding why this occured. best regards Marios

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