In reply to message posted by Jerry Peck:
I do Private Building Inspections and see the following freqently.
Water heater T&P relief valve, 3/4″ opening, 3/4″ discharge line has 5-7 elbows, length is 20′-30′ (some even longer), goes down under slab, across under garage, up and out the side wall.
I know Watts limits the number of elbows to 4 maximum and the total length to 30′ maximum, and it must drain downhill and not be trapped.
Obviously, what I see does not fit those requirements.
The local Chief Plumbing Inspectors (nor the Plumbing Inspectors under them) do not enforce the ‘no trap’ or maximum number of elbows. This holds true in Miami-Dade County, Broward County, and Palm Beach Count (where I inspect).
Their reaoning is that the T&P discharge line only need to “drain dry away from the valve so the valve does not corrode closed, the pressure from the valve will blow the line clear after it releases”, the line doesn’t need to drain dry its entire length. I have been unsuccessful in changing their minds.<<< SNIP HAVE THESE GUYS learn the ASME CODE
SylvanMP would not like what I see (I don’t either).
I thought I would start with my question, and depending on the answers, go forward to the typical installation I stated above.
I know SlyvanMP will not have anything good to say about having 20′ trapped and full of water all the time.
All information is appreciated.
Wow Jerry, finally a PROFESSIONAL seeking the correct advice.
I, AM, impressed PLEASE think about joining my list as there are enough Frauds out there dabbling in P&H and I try like Loz to maintain a highly motivated list..
OK for a point of information. Watts is a fantastic company BUT they also follow ASME and AGA (CS) standards
Watts sets NO standards what they do is follow the guide lines set forth in the various publications P&H FRAUDS never bother to read
so saying “I know Watts limits the number of elbows to 4 maximum and the total length to 30′ maximum,” is not exactly correct
By the way the ASME does NOT approve anything what they do say is certain devices are made to their suggestions.
Now to get around incompetent FRAUD P&H guys you contact a law firm specializing in going after code officials and so called installers and let the laws have a feast suing these low life’s out of business.
The way I cleaned house in one area I was contracted to work in was go behind the local inspectors and Fraudulent installers and make my own reports to the local insurance companies and several law firms I was hired by.
As we know the “Code” set up minimum standards but being professional inspectors we use the most stringent code for better protection for life and property.
The non knowing folks dabbling in P&H are easy hits in law suits as when confronted in a court of law they cannot back up their education when a “professional” hits them with several codes and uses the safer one possible.
The best suit to date I was not only able to nail the bum installer who was under insured so he took one heck of a personal HIT but I was able to bang the local good OLE boy inspector for criminal negligence and for good measure the law firm collected from the town counsel who “approved” their very lax code.
Seems they didn’t even have an engineer on the board or the very least a really qualified LMP.
If a locality cant make a decent local code there is always the national (garbage) or they can hire professionals to modify existing codes to local conditions.
Jerry the real EASY MONEY is going after folks dabbling in heating.
In a suit if your the inspector for the plaintiff you can get over 20% of the damages awarded rather then just the normal $225+ per HR.
All you do is have the lawyers on cross examinations ask What licenses do you hold and what FORMAL education in heating/plumbing do you have?
The cases that involve folks trained in Canada, England/Austraila/ South Africa, New Zealand, Ireland etc. are hard to win as these folks are really qualified for the most part.
The home grown good OLE boy is easy to prove how poor they do plummin as they just are not willing to get the real training to be good at their job they sort of just want to get over on folks.
Playing inspector behind the frauds is interesting and playing expect witness is very profitable and rewards taking the misfits out of circulation.
I have gone to several states and have been in courts more times then I can count and never lost any case for the insurance or law firms I work for.
If the government wont clean house then we have to police ourselves.
Hopefully many more states will have mandatory retesting YEARLY of the folks dabbling in heating
then as the bums get weeded out the real professionals can have lower insurance payments as we will not be paying for the low life’s who dabbling in heating.
Spot checking ON the job sites asking the installers about R stamp requirements etc.
Should be fun seeing how clean this industry can be.
Jerry YOU ARE GOOD do not let the system ruin you, keep pushing for stronger code changers and mostly try to nail the frauds dabbling in the field
» This message has been edited by SylvanLMP on 11 February 2002