Gas Range, Union & valve positioning??

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Originally posted by Rickman:
I have a gas range in my kitchen over an unfinished basement ceiling. What does the code state with respect to union and valve positioning?? Does code require the gas valve to be buried behind the range or can I install it in my cellar rafters instead? Also, is a union required by code and does the valve have to be on the appliance side of the union? Does the union and valve both have to be behind the range or can they be beneath the floor? Is a valve in the cellar then a union then another valve behind the range legal? Thanks in advance for any feedback!

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Normally under good plumbing practices the Gas cock (Valve) should be placed at the appliance and the union IF ALLOWED is to be placed after the shut off valve (between the valve and appliance)

Some local codes do not allow the use of a union but opt for a left and right nipple and coupling

The valve must be at or near the appliance and in the same room as the appliance. A union between the valve and the range is the easiest way, other than a flexible connector, to connect the gas to the range. If you were to use a union in the basement it has to be in a location where it is not concealed or inaccessible.

If it’s wrong then one of these days the whole state of Arizona is going to blow up and maybe we will land in New York. In which case we can only hope the trip is fatal rather than have to put up with all the New Yorkers that have not moved here already and make our lives miserable but wishing they were back there, but refusing to go.

Hey Sylvan, think about it.

If 4th year figures it legal then more power to him champ

Let him put his unions any place he wants as after all it aint his house

BOOOOOOM

IF it is accessible a union is allowed. If not then you have to use left/right nipples. And most areas allow ranges to be connected with flexible supplies since the average homeowner does not wish to contend with a left/right nipple when cleaning behind and under the range. I’ll bet Sylvan connects clothes dryers with left/right nipples also. And Bob, I have never had a house go BOOM, but I have prevented several by repairing bad gas systems. Do not equate screen names with experience. After all, it only takes three key strokes to put LMP after any name.

Bob. Are you really Sylvan using one of his many alter egos? If not what plumbing code are you using? I have never had an inspector turn down an installation where the union is accessible. I have never installed a union inside a wall or enclosed ceiling. I wonder if you have ever even installed a gas line or connected an appliance. And have you ever seen a gas company connect their meters and manifolds with left/right nipples.

Hey Bob, I finally figured it out HELPER wants FREE information and keeps asking ridiculous questions so we can educate him rather then him going out and reading codes on his own.

These handymen are sure trying to learn off the licensed professionals huh?

Ignore him and hopefully he will only take himself out with his BBC gas piping practices.

Ah the joys of being ignorant in ALL aspects of the trade.

Imagine a person in the trade even 2 weeks not knowing WHY a trap is needed.

Bobvan.. Please tell us all why Fourth Year is wrong with his reply.Please give the book and auther of the code book you get your information from.I’m afraid that I’ve been doing it wrong for 15 years.I may also have to tell the inspectors that they were wrong also.Come to think of itll the plumbers in my area have been doing it wrong.I hope you can get me the information I need to correct this situation.

Wallingford,

UPC 1211.10.
You might find this website helpful http://www.codecheck.com/plumcode.htm#anchor1124407

UPC – Uniform Plumbing Code published by the IAPMO (International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials)

Phil H

S:
Where does the reference to a trap come in. Is this another one of your answers that have nothing to do with the question. Or are you refering to the drip leg which most codes have eliminated now that the gas supplies are purer?

Wallingford.
Do not pay any attention to them. They tried to dazzle with brilliance but that failed since they had a power failure. Then they tried to baffle with B.S. but people quickly saw through that also. Now they try to confuse the issue by citing anything they can think of, possibly including the Coast Guard tide tables, in hopes that the user will get tired or lost before he discovers they are completely clueless as to the answer to his question. And if you notice they don’t spell very good either.

quote:

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Originally posted by Plumber in Illinois:
Wallingford.
Do not pay any attention to them. They tried to dazzle with brilliance but that failed since they had a power failure. Then they tried to baffle with B.S. but people quickly saw through that also. Now they try to confuse the issue by citing anything they can think of, possibly including the Coast Guard tide tables, in hopes that the user will get tired or lost before he discovers they are completely clueless as to the answer to his question. And if you notice they don’t spell very good either.

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This is funny when I was working in the loop area I found
Illinois has no plumbers really qualified that is why we had to get out of towners mostly from Texas

Rickman,
In the United States, there is no nationwide set of codes. Each area adopts the code. There are a few ‘model codes;’ the UPC is one, AGA/NFPA 54 the National Fuel Gas Code is another. I live in Los Angeles. California has adopted the UPC and ammended it and calls it the California Plumbing Code. The County and the City of Los Angeles then ammend the California Code. I can drive a couple miles from my house and be in unincorporated LA county which is governed with slightly different building codes. Kind of like driving to Nevada where smoking in public buildings is allowed.
Sylvan started off with some good advice to you; 4th year started off with fair advice. Your best answer will come from a licensed plumber or building authority in your area. Personally, I would connect it the way Sylvan originally stated. Shut off next to appliance, no ground joint union inside building before the shut off and no reducer bushings. Some areas may allow otherwise. I strongly recommend hiring a professional for work with gas, particularly if you have propane pipes in a basement (it is heavier than air).

Plumber from Illinois
You might have better luck finding tide tables from NOAA rather than USCG. If you are baffled by codes and proper plumbing practices, you will probably need your boss to buy you a new shovel soon.

Phil H

Every gas stove I have installed has had a shut off and a gas flex behind it.New York City inspectors don’t seem to have a problem with this type of install,but if Sylvan say’s it’s wrong then it’s wrong.

BobVan It would be very hard to go to a supply house and find a non approved gas flex or valve.You try your best to make every job seem more complicated and exspensive than need be.This job requires nothing more than a gas valve and a gas flex.They should both be behind the stove.This installation is common practice and very safe.Left/right nipples? Why not just cook on an open fire like some people did back then, old man.

CAUTION: GAS IS DANGEROUS AND SHOULD ONLY BE HANDLED BY PROFESSIONALS. I hope anyone reading this topic can use it to be less dangerous rather than gain some limited knowledge and over-confidence to become really dangerous.

I can go to the supply house and get any number of valves which will fit but are not listed for use with gas, I can get the wrong size flex, I can get everything to hook up a range with a listed gas hose for a barbeque which is not allowed to be used in a dwelling.

In my opinion, the phrase “expert at the home center” is an oxymoron. At supply houses, I have seen the driver help out by pulling parts and I had best know what I want.

There are gas valve specifications and standards which go well beyond what is required in a dwelling. But, I’ve seen pilot burners which could probably heat my house.

Phil H

SNIP>I would love the
opportunity to sit on a round table conversation with Phil and Robert and Sylvan as these guys are a wealth of information. Iron Mike, please feel free to sit on the round table at
[email protected]

Plumbbob
Even funnier is that when you go to other states, they seem to think that Chicago plumbers, (and SOME from New York), are the best trained ones in the U.S.A.. That has been my experience also. Texas? Where is that? Is that the place, where, if you have a lot of it, you don’t have much?