Slow hot water to kitchen

A lot of piping installers who think they are plumbers either forget to install return circulation lines Or never bothered to space the hot and cold water lines a minimum of 6″ apart

Or insulate the hot AND cold water piping.

Here is an article that you may find interesting Efficiency of Hot Water Recirculating Pumps by Sylvan Tieger : PlumbViews >>

MasterPlumbers.com – The Largest Plumbing Resou
http://www.masterplumbers.com/plumbing/plumbviews/1999/rec_pump.html

Buster. I was paying attention to what you said and the problem sounds more like it’s a restrction in the faucet or the line feeding it.The first thing I would check would be any shut off valves on the hot line feeding this faucet.The faucet itself can be the problem also.A good plumber should be able to find and correct the problem.A recirc line is not what you need.

If the system was designed with a recirculating loop, but there was never a pump installed or the pump is defective, then the sink might be the last fixture on the loop before it returned to the water heater. In that case, it would not get hot water until it had supplied all the other fixtures. After the kitchen water is hot, go to the other faucets and see if the water there is already hot. If so, then that may be your problem.

Wallingford Plm+Htg wrote on 18 August 2001 at 12:23 AM:
Buster. I was paying attention to what you said and the problem sounds more like it’s a restrction in the faucet or the line feeding it.

Hey JO where did it say the water was slow coming out of the faucet?

Even 4th year knows more then you do.

You do not know heating or plumbing or even know how to read it seems.

Have a helper read the question to you again ok?

Iron Mike,If you read what Buster had to say you would see that the bathrooms that are further away than the kithen get hot water quicker.The average homeowner doesn’t notice a difference in flo rates from one faucet to another.Lets assume that he does have a recirc line with no pump or a bad pump.If the system was installed correctly water would still flo to what ever faucet is opened.This problem can be as easy as cleaning an aerator.A plumber that goes in and doesn’t check the supply first isn’t doing a good job.

Thanks for the compliment, (I think), but do not confuse a screen name with a personality. I may have been a foreman, supervisor, contractor/owner, since before you were born. If the kitchen is the last item on a malfuntioning circulating line, all the other faucets will get hot water sooner than it will.

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Originally posted by Iron Mike:
Wallingford Plm+Htg wrote on 18 August 2001 at 12:23 AM:
Buster. I was paying attention to what you said and the problem sounds more like it’s a restrction in the faucet or the line feeding it.

Hey JO where did it say the water was slow coming out of the faucet?

Even 4th year knows more then you do.

You do not know heating or plumbing or even know how to read it seems.

Have a helper read the question to you again ok?

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Mike you are wasting your time as you took it forgranted your dealing with a “plumber”

Some folks have no clue how a recirculation line works like these same blokes put “heating” as they have no clue to this field either.

Putting in a loop system doesnt not make one a heating guy.

This is why a lot of the wanna be handymen put plumber on here BUT never would actually give their name or license number on here.

Mike you tried.

If you would like please E mail me as I have a list made of of only “professionals” in engineering ,heating,plumbing and drain cleaning.

We discuss every topic not just limited to “basic’ out house piping

[Edited by SylvanLMP on 19 August 2001]

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Originally posted by fourth year:
Thanks for the compliment, (I think), but do not confuse a screen name with a personality. I may have been a foreman, supervisor, contractor/owner, since before you were born. If the kitchen is the last item on a malfuntioning circulating line, all the other faucets will get hot water sooner than it will.

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EXACTLY finally we can agree on SOMETHING, too bad this list doesnt have more Qualified folks writing in.

Also some dabblers in heatin and plummmin take a line off the return circulation as a feed as it maybe closer to the fixture.

So the last item on a supply line will be fed last.Thats just pure brilliance!!

sorry to rain on everyones parade but maybe Buster has a faucet like a moen single handle and the cartridge is just faulty.

Maybe an air-lock in the pipe,given that the system is gravity fed.

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Originally posted by Wallingford Plm+Htg:
So the last item on a supply line will be fed last.Thats just pure brilliance!!

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Well I guess you never balanced out a system when doing your trailer park plumbing

Silvan you were right this guy is thick

I would say he is a little more than thick.Maybe some day he will see the light.Wal-Mart is always looking for new Greeters.

All of this assumes there is a cirulating line. The last item will get hot last is not brilliance, it is a fact. If it is a circulating line then a properly operating pump would give hot water everywhere equally. If it is an incomplete circulating system, which I run into quite frequently, without a pump, then the installer is using the kitchen sink as the circulator device, assuming that the sink is used most frequently and therefore will keep the rest of the piping supplied with hot water. A bad pump and a bad check valve on a recirculating system can allow cool water to backflow to the last fixture on the loop and then it may never get hot water.

My company name, license number, or former Journeyman’s card number would be irrelevent, since I do not work nationally. If someone in my area wants a good plumber they can find me in the phone book, or ask one of their friends that I service.

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Originally posted by kenny b:
sorry to rain on everyones parade but maybe Buster has a faucet like a moen single handle and the cartridge is just faulty.

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Hi Kenny, from what I remember about the older model Moen was that it caused mixing of the hot and cold water even in the closed position.

If this were the case then I would imagine that the entire system would be tempered.

Good point dont you love plumbing especialy sight unsen problems? LOL

One more point on recirulation of domestic hot water, a pump is NOT required as there are several options like “just right” for example from Nibco great product

Hey fourth year, you service them,but do you do any plumbing work?

Buster, got anymore questions ?

Just Right is a gravity system and needs a basement. I have not seen a basement around here for many, many years.

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Originally posted by fourth year:
Just Right is a gravity system and needs a basement. I have not seen a basement around here for many, many years.

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4th year do you know anything at all about the trade?

I installed “just Right” as Silvan suggested on a ranch house no basement there dude.

You better chalk it up guy you aint never going to be a skilled tradesman.

In that case you overcame the rule of physics that says hot water rises and cool water drops.

If you look at the Just Right installation site, you will see that it is on a water heater in the basement. If the heater is not in a basement then the water piping has to be in an attic. I probably do a lot more plumbing work than a “pipe pusher” does.

One more thing. We were installing these systems in the 40’s and 50’s. We just did not call them Just Right. We called them convection circulating systems. Which is what Nibco also calls them if you read the literature.

Fourth Year,

Ever hear of a man named Bernoulli or wonder why planes can fly. The Just Right works on some of the same very basic principles in fluid mechanics. Do you know what a venturi is.

I have no practical experience with the Just Right. But, convection is only part of the picture. The idea is sound. It seems hard for me to imagine one device to work on all systems. I imagine the goal of the device is to have the hot water travel 3-5 fps through the pipes when water is used.

Since I have not used this product nor seen one installed, there is no way I can endorse it. The principle of operation is sound, I do not care to discuss the pros and cons of this device with you.

Phil H
[Edited by Phil H on 22 August 2001]

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Originally posted by Phil H:
Fourth Year,

Ever hear of a man named Bernoulli or wonder why planes can fly. The Just Right works on some of the same very basic principles in fluid mechanics. Do you know what a venturi is.

I have no practical experience with the Just Right. But, convection is only part of the picture. The idea is sound. It seems hard for me to imagine one device to work on all systems. I imagine the goal of the device is to have the hot water travel 3-5 fps through the pipes when water is used.

Since I have not used this product nor seen one installed, there is no way I can endorse it. The principle of operation is sound, I do not care to discuss the pros and cons of this device with you.

Phil H
[Edited by Phil H on 22 August 2001]

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Wow another plumber who reads and understands what they read.

Phil why confuse “FRAUD” and the helper with facts?

This same lack of mentality does not believe that a boiler can be installed on a roof.