25 Jun 2000 at 2:00 am #273127Anonymous
It appears to me (IMHO) that a lot of these snake oil salesmen try to scare the general public in putting in all kinds of USELESS filtration systems to remove the hidden dangers that only these “engineers ” seem to see.
A lot of folks now run to the super market to buy bottle water that HAS NO Federal guide lines as to purity.
According to a lot of the filter companies that PESTER ME to push their crap on the unsuspecting victims of society about house filters ranging from simple lead removal to reverse osmosis.
Why don’t these scare mongers actually go out and be totally honest about filters and how a CHEAP point of use filter is the best way to go If your hell bent on wasting your money?
To listen to some of these over zealous snake oil salesmen you would think everyone was drinking poison. I think these “engineers” would best serve the general public by GETTING out of selling plumbing products and selling AIR purification systems for those afflicted with asthma other alleges like “sick building syndrome”
Seems the more high tech we get the more litigation we have from product liability. Let these UNEMPLOYABLE filter experts find some other place to scare folks instead of water WHY not go after the manufactures that sell plastic GARBAGE vents and the “engineers” who endorse this house hold danger.
25 Jun 2000 at 2:09 am #286947
Right on again, Sylvan, my man. You sure do keep us thinking.
25 Jun 2000 at 12:50 pm #286948
They seem to check on what Ralph Nader’s latest vendetta is, whether it is asbestos, radon, lead in water, etc., and then concentrate on it until that one dies out and he has to discover a new crisis, (or else get a real job). The scam artists follow fads. In Arizon it was solar water heaters as long as there was a tax credit for installing them. Once the credit expired so did 90% of the manufacturers.
25 Jun 2000 at 5:21 pm #286949
Thank you HJ . I just left a home where this “filter guy” installed this filtration system where the potable water supply was directly connected to the waste piping through a little hole drilled in the pipe BEHIND the trap.
These wanna be “engineers” are going to end up getting someone really sick
Imagine someone pushing reverse osmoses in the worlds BEST water supply system for a single family home?
You hit the nail on the head with these rip off artists coming out of the wood work.
26 Jun 2000 at 5:38 pm #286950
Well as far as the useless technology called reverse osmosis if you wanted a pissing match this was a bad fight to choose. Let me tell you a little about what I do for a living. I am a field service engineer for Osmonics/Zyzatech I travel the entire country and put comercial 510 -K reverse osmossis systems and SDS systems in kidney dialysis clinics and hospitals.
I have worked with the best and worst plumbers in this country. Most of the time I am dealing with facilities that are not ready for me to do my work. I spend a lot of time traveling from job to job telling reluctant trades people how to do a job that they have had 6 months to a year to prepare for. You know how long I get to look at my drawings 3 to 7 days at best most of the time it’s on my way there on the airplane.
I have been to NYC many times and every state in the country including Hawaii. This is what I am doing for a living other than peddle what you consider worthless residential reverse osmosis systems on this fine site and many others sites as well. I have paid good money to advertise on this web site and don’t need you chasing off potential customers with lewd comments about women’s breasts being the best way to clean baby bottles. I have noticed that you respond to almost every post on this site. I was asked by Lorenzo to answer questions on this forum. Not to get into arguments about the technology that I represent.
It seems to me that you are not the only one on this site that has something to say. How about giving some of us useless stab you in the back snake oil sales men like me a chance to peddle my wares without being harassed and dragged through the mud by you. I can take my advertising dollars somewhere else you know.
As far as being an out of work engineer I don’t think so, I have my own patent and plumbers and water treatment dealers that think my device saves them time. I have never scared any one into buying a drinking water system. If they want to drink horse piss then let them.
I cater to the people that know that their drinking water is unsafe and want to do something about it. Our tap water in Phoenix has anywhere from 900 to 2000 PPM TDS. If you think you can drink this crap you are welcome to it.
Your water in NYC has an average of 170-PPM TDS, and yes it is the envy of the world. The EPA considers water containing over 500 PPM TDS (total dissolved solids) to be unhealthy. Have you ever been to Texas or Florida?
Just try and do dialysis in this country without reverse osmosis system you will be putting patients in harms way and you will be shut down.
Have you ever heard of chlorimine and uh fluoride this stuff just kills these people dead as a doornail not to mention aluminum and nitrate. We won’t even begin to cover what dead bacteria does to dialysis patients should I go on. Try telling a dialysis patient that the reverse osmosis system that there life depends on is a worthless piece of junk.
You see if it wasn’t for reverse osmosis systems I woulden’t even live in Phoenix. I know of countless areas of the country where the water is far out of compliance. You tell these water companies to shut down and guess what you just turned off the only scouce of water in the area. I believe that point of use systems act as a safety net for times when the water supply may be in question. I am not asking for you to believe in anything but I ask you to see it for yourself. http://www.osmonics.com you might learn something.
26 Jun 2000 at 10:51 pm #286951
To believe in anything but I ask you to see it for yourself. http://www.osmonics.com you might learn something.<<<Good point
WHAT I do consider “snake oil salesmen” is the folks with NO EDUCATION in this field dabbling in filtration systems like certain door to door Pyramid sales representatives who wouldn’t know a carbon filter from a chill water system filtration DE ionizing one I installed in NYU in 1972.
What the “engineers” should be doing is screaming FOUL when these fly by night home centers and door to door rip off artists go around installing systems that put the folks MORE at risk then not having a filter.
IMHO I can see no valid reason for such as elaborate system for a one room trailer park residence.
I have just removed a lousy dangerous system that someone idiot spent OVER $22,000 to install in a ONE FAMILY home in NYC.
Why filter the water going literally down the toilet? When a point of USE filter(s) could also remove several contaminants using a duel cartage system depending on the heavy metals OR minerals you wanted removed taste odor etc.
When working on Nuclear reactor chill water piping I can see the need to prevent fouling from the Hudson River BUT some folks took it to the extreme and try to scare folks into buying systems that are way over kill.
My Articles about filters STAND when I say ONLY Licensed Master Plumbers/Licensed Engineers should even attempt to install whole house units. Too MANY Yahoo’s instal cross connections and ONE idiot didn’t even bother to calculate flow rates so AFTER this $22,000 system was installed NOT ONE TOILET could flush as the pressure drop was horendious..
We need enforcement and self policing to make filters REALLY safe for the general public and EXPLAIN the dangers of the systems that are a direct cross connection to the potable lines. Have a GREAT 4th of July. Respectfully your Friend Sylvan
26 Jun 2000 at 11:00 pm #286952
Wait a dang minute here, Dave. You sure are a defensive young man. You may pay to advertise on the site but posting on this board is for free advice. You also sell water systems and I feel that if you believe in your product that strongly, you need not defend it but simply tell the public why. I hope what you say about the dialysis patients is true. If so, great for you and your products. There is a far cry from sick patients enduring what well folks may. My main purpose of replying here is to say, this board is for opinions on plumbing and everyone is entitled to one, including you. Lighten up and stop acting so insecure. You’ll get a lot of attention with a little humor. I would be willing to bet if you lighten up, you’re sales may double. The human factor, you understand is extremely important. Good luck with your products. I researched your website and find it interesting. I just may inquire more about it. Smile now, son. Life is short. Take it from me.
Retired too soon
27 Jun 2000 at 1:25 am #286953
Hi Dave to your Question
“Your water in NYC has an average of 170-PPM TDS, and yes it is the envy of the world. ( OF COURSE JUST LIKE THE NYC PLUMBING INDUSTRY 10,000 Hours apprentice training and 5 MORE years before you can even take the Master Plumbers exams 10 YEARS dude to say IM a “plumber”)
The EPA considers water containing over 500 PPM TDS (total dissolved solids) to be unhealthy. Have you ever been to Texas or Florida?”
Yes, I have been to Florida (Mayport/ Jacksonville) The Navy base YES Dave plumbers ALSO travel. No, I was NOT in Texas BUT I was working in Oklahoma.
I was working on the heating and HVAC plant nice of you to ask. I also worked in Spain, Greece, Italy, Malta, Crete and several states across this great Nation.
Several of my accounts are African countries and I am even an honorary citizen of Guinea (Ivory Coast) Conakry, Kenya and Benin.
I worked in Beirut and several other ports of call. You see Dave Plumbers ALSO get around learning our trade.
Now there seems to be a major crisis in Israel over lack of “pure water” I heard this from one of my ambassadors last week.
So Dave Why don’t you go to Israel / mid east and SELL THEM one heck of a system that converts OIL to water OR take the ocean water and do like we do on Navy ships and convert this sea water to potable water?
Think about it TRADING one gallon of water for one Gallon of OIL Less 10% finders fee for me.
I remember one “engineer” who wanted to float an ICE BERG over to the middle east from Alaska for a 10-15 year water supply (I never heard what happened) Dave WHY not chill out and not take your frustrations out on here. Remember I posted FLY BY NIGHTS not legitimate companies. Calm down guy relax and learn to hold your water LOL. We are NOT the problem We are the solution of enlightening the general public to use “LICENSED PROFESSIONALS ONLY”
Remember we PLUMBERS protect the health of the Nation & Prevention rather than cure. SylvanLMP Have a great one GUY BY the way your company has a great web site and very educational.
27 Jun 2000 at 8:12 pm #286954
Thanks for your support guys. I have been trying to get plumbers into using ROCONN when they run into bad residential and light commercial RO installs.
I believe someone in a wheelchair should be able to shut of an RO system that is leaking or not working correctly. They should also be able to bypass the icemaker.
Disinfecting the storage tank is so important but people just don’t do it. If you make it easier for them to do it then maybe they will start doing it.
I agree with you Sylvan, only licensed plumbers should be able to install this type of equipment. Especially water softeners and RO systems. I have seen so many terrible installations by people who have no right even touching them.
Thanks again for your support
28 Jun 2000 at 1:58 am #286955
David I looked at your web site and it is really a professionally designed site.
I think the problem is we are BOTH very frustrated with the caliper of installers out there using a great system and installing it improperly OR manufacturers who came into this line of filtration/chemical work as they couldn’t make it in any other field.
In one plumbing publication I read of a “basic business advice giver” who was either fired or lost every job he/she had and then resorted into saying how to use a plumber for bookkeeping by having non professionals doing ALL kinds of jobs.
Some “filter” sales representative offered me 45% profit for using his filtration system.
I asked about the ASSE rating? and he said “WHAT DAT”? I then asked if it has any NSF markings and he said Why does it need it?
I then asked what size and type of particles can it remove and he said what’s a particle .ONE IDIOT even went so far (A door to door soap company peddler) had the gall to tell me he was selling a life time filter INSTALL IT and forget it
This is what makes the real professional companies suffer.
We need to get the stumble bums out of installation and manufacturing ESPECIALLY the CHEAP non code imported CRAP.
All I ask is for the codes already on the books to be enforced LIKE truth in sentencing like we ask in the NRA.
Thank you again David for a fantastic product and caring enough about this industry to answer my original posting. Respectfully SylvanLMP
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